ASIC AGAIN!!!

[onetrack]

9 hours ago, turboplanner said:

My opinion is the ASIC Card says "This person has been thoroughly backgrounded, is known to us and is not likely to be a threat."

 

 

 

 

Well, the backgrounding must be pretty poor, what with the number of ASIC holders - both flight crew and ground staff - who have been arrested and charged with high-level offences, in recent years. 

 

There were 5 ground staff arrested just recently for being involved in the importation of a huge amount of drugs and for being part of a criminal network. 

And there have been multiple numbers of flight crew in recent years arrested and charged and found guilty of a range of offences - and I believe at least one pilot is on trial for a double murder.

 

None of this is to say that all those ASIC holders who are indulging in criminality, have all been caught.

 

So I think your opinion of the quality of the backgrounding is seriously misplaced.

[turboplanner]

5 hours ago, onetrack said:

Well, the backgrounding must be pretty poor, what with the number of ASIC holders - both flight crew and ground staff - who have been arrested and charged with high-level offences, in recent years. 

 

There were 5 ground staff arrested just recently for being involved in the importation of a huge amount of drugs and for being part of a criminal network. 

And there have been multiple numbers of flight crew in recent years arrested and charged and found guilty of a range of offences - and I believe at least one pilot is on trial for a double murder.

 

None of this is to say that all those ASIC holders who are indulging in criminality, have all been caught.

 

So I think your opinion of the quality of the backgrounding is seriously misplaced.

What you are talking about here are routine crimes which are dealt with by State or Commonwealth Police.

In this case the ASIC issue is security. Drug dealers etc tend to be focused on their business which may well include popping off competitors, but in most cases are unlikely to commit a terrorist act and draw attention to their successful business. The information may well be supplied to those issuing ASIC Cards, but civil liberties in Australia are vigorously defended by lawyers.

[turboplanner]

CASA is often blamed for Airservices issues, or ATSB issues and I notice quite a few people seem to be trying to drag CASA into this discussion, so I asked this simple question.

 

Q:        Who is responsible for aviation security in Australia?

A:         The Department of Home Affairs

 

So there you have the Department and you can find the Minister responsible for that Department.

 

Next I checked the process, which as we know consists of:

 

1. A period of Public Consultation where you all would have had an opporunity to make a submission.
2. A Bill which has to go before both Houses of Parliament, and goes backwards and forwards until both Houses approve it, so its contents will vary as it is being processed.
3. An Act
4. Regulations

 

I have to apologise for not doing this before but I didn't have the hours it usually takes to run down the exact documents. As it turned out I foun these in under five minutes.

 

Aviation Transport Security Bill 2004

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_Search_Results/Result?bId=r1789

 

Aviation Transport Security Act 2004

https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb/au/legis/cth/consol_act/atsa2004348/

 

Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005

http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/atsr2005457/

 

The Act tells you the whats and whys, the Regulations tell you what you are required to do.

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by turboplanner

[spacesailor]

" civil liberties " my arsss .

Compulsory Medicated ! . 

It is , supposed to be illegal in Australia. 

I don't want it !, does Not count for individuals.

spacesailor

[Jabiru7252]

I can see this coming; In order to obtain proof of identity you have to have proof of identity in order to obtain proof of identity ...........

[kgwilson]

Do you have proof of that?

[sfGnome]

10 hours ago, Jabiru7252 said:

I can see this coming; In order to obtain proof of identity you have to have proof of identity in order to obtain proof of identity ...........

Don’t laugh! When I moved overseas, I couldn’t get my residency card until I had a fixed address, I couldn’t get a fixed address until I had a bank account, and I couldn’t get a bank account until (you guessed it) I had my residency card. 😵‍💫

[facthunter]

They obviously didn't want you to have a fixed address.. . You must have encountered the LADY who was handling my wife's Passport application, here in Oz.  Nev

[BrendAn]

reminds me of when i applied for an underground mining job.

the person i spoke to said we only accept people with underground mining experience,

i said how do i get that, he said by working underground. 

[facthunter]

IF they are all like that no wonder there are issues. Gina reckons about $4 a day is enough for a worker. She's worth $36 billion. Her Father, Lang Hancock, didn't think SHE was worth MUCH at all. but what would he know? . Nev

[Jabiru7252]

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

IF they are all like that no wonder there are issues. Gina reckons about $4 a day is enough for a worker. She's worth $36 billion. Her Father, Lang Hancock, didn't think SHE was worth MUCH at all. but what would he know? . Nev

Where and when did Gina say $4 a day is enough for a worker? 

[onetrack]

It was actually $2 a day - but it wasn't that she reckoned $2 a day was good enough for Australian employees - she actually said that Australian workers had to learn to compete with African workers, who got $2 a day. Of course, many people presumed she was obliquely referring to her employees.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-05/rinehart-says-aussie-workers-overpaid-unproductive/4243866

[pmccarthy]

Thirty years ago when the Golden Grove mine kicked off, they hired people with no mining experience. They were paid less, because they were less productive, but put through a multi stage training programme. Even the girls from Perth office signed up as underground miners. But as soon as each person got some experience they went elsewhere for much higher pay. The mine had a constant problem of inexperienced workers and shortage of people. So the experiment ended.

[facthunter]

I allowed for Inflation with the $2.    Nev

[skippydiesel]

Thought I would wait a week, from the last post, to do completely unbiased 😆 summing up;

 

The vast majority think ASIC, as it relates to low volume aircraft movement dometic airfields/ports (RPT):

• Was/is, an ill conceived "knee jerk" response, to the US Sept 11 terrorist event, designed to gain political "brownie points" (votes) by providing a solution to a mythical problem.
• As such is a gross overreach, to a non existent security need within Australia.
• Is an unnecessary & therefore onerous imposition on private pilots.
• Has potential negative safety ramifications (for those seeking to avoid using ADSCA/ASIC airport).
• Is an unjustified imposition on our freedom of movement & access to public facilities (ADSCA/ASIC airport).
• Confusion, to this day, as to who/what/when ASIC applies/needed.
• Is unlikly to be removed due to political inertia (when it comes to security) and possible airline lobbying as a way of reducing access to their airports by private pilots (a nuisance to commercial traffic?).
• Comprehensively fails to archive any sort of security enhancement and as such should be dispensed with ASAP.

The few supporters :

• Are untroubled by the imposition on their private lives (security checks) and impact on their fellow (non ASIC) pilots freedom of access to public facilities.
• Low financial cost of ASIC application/renewal. Just another, cost to aviating. Don't care that it's an expense that achieves nothing.
• Refer to mystical insider knowledge, of Australian security needs/activity, that in some inexplicable way justifies the program (the authoritarian, trust me without question/justification philosophy).

 

[facthunter]

 That's not Unbiased. Not even close. That doesn't mean I like the way the ASIC is implemented. Each Airport committee does it's own thing . A Security Controlled Airport Looks like a bigger show  There's never a shortage of Empire Builders. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Biased? SD may well be biased, but is his synopsis biased with the information at hand? Or does Australia have that many more criminally minded nutters per capita than the USA, for example? Or could it be that the pollies/bureaucrats can't be bothered doing their jobs properly so implement a CYA regime? Biases have a tendency to gather pace when there is a lack of information. And that information does not have to go into specifics.

 

Don't think the pollies/bureaucrats shirk their responsibilities? Ask undercover AFP officers if the latest news is to be believed.

[skippydiesel]

Interesting (to me anyhow);

Sport Pilot Editor, Nicholas Heath,  has reported on his breadth/width flights across Australia (in his non RAA RV6A).  Ref: “All The Way Up” (issue 103) and “Across The Guts” (issue 107).

Landing at neumeouse airfields,  over very many days , almost as an aside, he notes that only once was his ASIC requested.

I hope that he uses this isolated incident, to write an article in the next SP (issue 108), soundly condemning ASIC,  as it applies to recreational pilots accessing small regional airports.

[turboplanner]

11 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Interesting (to me anyhow);

Sport Pilot Editor, Nicholas Heath,  has reported on his breadth/width flights across Australia (in his non RAA RV6A).  Ref: “All The Way Up” (issue 103) and “Across The Guts” (issue 107).

Landing at neumeouse airfields,  over very many days , almost as an aside, he notes that only once was his ASIC requested.

I hope that he uses this isolated incident, to write an article in the next SP (issue 108), soundly condemning ASIC,  as it applies to recreational pilots accessing small regional airports.

Dandenong a few days ago; these have been expanding exponentially; now hundreds per demo and regular demos supporting Hamas. What's the alternative?

[tillmanr]

Turbo are you suggesting that the Dandenong protesters had ASICs?

[turboplanner]

32 minutes ago, tillmanr said:

Turbo are you suggesting that the Dandenong protesters had ASICs?

Some may have, but I think others may have been Palestinians; they were demonstrating just 7.5 km from the Springvale book store that was training ISIS fighters and the demonstration was against Israel and its allies.

[kgwilson]

So what has this got to do with ASICs. Politics and demonstrations and the Palestinian Israeli conflict do not belong in this forum.

[turboplanner]

6 hours ago, kgwilson said:

So what has this got to do with ASICs. Politics and demonstrations and the Palestinian Israeli conflict do not belong in this forum.

If people just bought their ASIC cards and got on with it there would be no need for discussions, but they don't, and we get this endless moaning about them. In the group I posted there are ISIS people, and anywhere Jihads are a part of the arsenal, there's a safety threat.

[Student Pilot]

On 27/1/2024 at 2:58 AM, turboplanner said:

If people just bought their ASIC cards and got on with it there would be no need for discussions, but they don't, and we get this endless moaning about them. In the group I posted there are ISIS people, and anywhere Jihads are a part of the arsenal, there's a safety threat.

Yes and a $2 pair of sidecutters will overcome not having an asic

[skippydiesel]

Turbs me old mate;

 

"If people just bought their ASIC cards and got on with it there would be no need for discussions, but they don't, and we get this endless moaning about them."

 

It's a very good thing for you and the rest of our, supposedly free, society, that at least some of us do not conforme, without question, to all of the Gov/bureaucracies rules & regulations.

 

A healthy democracy requires active dissent, without it we have Russia/China/ Syria/Turkey/ sundry African and Asian countries, may be even a future Trump USA.

 

Democracy is imperfect and fragile - constant vigilance (questioning) is required to keep it from dying - look how close we came with dictator Scumo! I speculate that Australia is one of the most regulated, so called, democracies in the World - we have far too many illogical, poorly conceived, ineffective, redundant....... .....laws that remain "on the books" because of political/bureaucratic indifference. 

 

ASIC, as it's applied to private pilots, wishing to access small regional airfields, may seem to be but a small inconvenience (..got on with it there would be no need for discussions) however its continued existence, against common sense, is a foot in the door (small to be sure) of totalitarianism and should be condemned at every opportunity.