ASIC AGAIN!!!

[Ian]

Out of curiosity what are the current fees into Coffs?

 

Generally your gut feeling about security is correct. When the security measures appear to be out of proportion, they probably are.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Ian

[graham brown]

The funniest example of out of proportion security I have ever seen was in Kiribati, Christmas Is. I was one of 4 passengers waiting for plane from Hawaii to CI then to Fiji. The airport is in the village of Banana which should have alerted us to the craziness. The staff/villagers went through the whole international departure routine including random pat down and explosive test. Scanned the bags checked the passports etc. The plane was late so we waited and waited until all the staff/villagers disappeared. We went back to hotel and went to the dining room for dinner. The whole village of Banana was there as the flight was cancelled and the airline was paying. We asked why the flight was cancelled and they said it was too late and the airfield lights didn’t work because the villages had stolen the bulbs.A week later was the next flight and the same process but this time we knew the staff/villagers because we had been fishing with them at the airline expense. We only had one delay this time due to the baggage handler falling asleep waiting for the pilot to open the hatch. When he did the baggage handler was asleep. Someone had to go out on the tarmac to wake him up. I bet they didn’t have an asic card. Maybe they did. Those stamps in my passport are treasured. No terrorist to be seen due to the great security 

[skippydiesel]

7 hours ago, kgwilson said:

It is required at Coffs Harbour but in a sense not required.

 

First fly in & get permission to land (only when ATC operating), then taxi to the Aero Club, miles from the terminal. Exit to the clubhouse. Simple.

 

Then to leave ask someone for the code, start up & get ATC clearance (only when ATC operating) & go.

 

One of our members wife had to renew her ASIC. It took ages & then they decided her name was wrong. Eventaully after I don't know how many months it got renewed in her MAIDEN name. How stupid is that!!!!. Apparently because she got her PPL before she was married. Every other document she has is in her married name by virtue of the marriage certificate 20 years prior. Are these ASIC providers morons or idiots? Both I reckon, one and the same.

So what's stopping you landing & taxying directly to the Club House, without permission?

 

Then reversing the procedure to depart (sans code)?

Edited November 5, 2023 by skippydiesel

[kgwilson]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

So what's stopping you landing & taxying directly to the Club House, without permission?

 

Then reversing the procedure to depart (sans code)?

Nothing. The Tower is closed from 5pm & airspace reverts to class G till it opens at 8am. GA & RA aircraft are not allowed on the RPT apron or terminal but use all the taxiways. There used to be grass taxiways around 10/28 but these are now closed so you have to taxi up the runway. ATC always direct you to the GA area where the aero club is & also 10/28 if there is no other traffic around using the main runway 03/21 & there isn't much crosswind. If you are new to Coffs the taxiways can be a bit confusing. Taxiways are numbered A to H with E having 4 sections E1 to E4. During ATC hours you are directed obviously.

[skippydiesel]

In Short - ASIC is not being implemented at Coffs - this was pretty much my experience BC on the NSW south coast, central and northern inland.

[kgwilson]

6 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

In Short - ASIC is not being implemented at Coffs - this was pretty much my experience BC on the NSW south coast, central and northern inland.

It probably is around the RPT area but that's not where any of us GA & RA types go

[facthunter]

HE works on the gullible while advancing the God King poorly done by victim of corruption so AMERICA will belong the  Trump Family DYNASTY.   Nev

[skippydiesel]

37 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

It probably is around the RPT area but that's not where any of us GA & RA types go

Thing is "security" around RPT aircraft was strongly in evidence/good befog ASIC.

 

As a passenger I recall being kept well away from the aircraft - as was every other non airline staff member.

[Thruster88]

It did say in the early spiel? about the requirements that the card was only needed if in the secure area of the security controlled airport.

[skippydiesel]

21 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

It did say in the early spiel? about the requirements that the card was only needed if in the secure area of the security controlled airport.

As a pilot against ASIC being implemented for domestic airports (where they don't share a field/facility with international movements) I don't see the point in them being used at all if, as I pointed out , security for RPT's was good before ASIC.

 

Further; Correct me if I am wrong (I hope I am) but the words in ERSA "This  AD is a Security Controlled Airport"  means that ASIC is required for the whole caboodle not just the are where the RPT will/is/has parked.

[kgwilson]

ASIC is a total crock. I have been challenged a couple of times but telling the security to get stuffed in the nicest possible way has worked for me. Mostly nobody cares.

[Jabiru7252]

Yea, when I was flying I never had an ASIC and when challenged, stayed polite and asked for assistance. Tell them you're 'special' and they might understand...

[turboplanner]

https://www.auscheck.gov.au/security-card/aviation/asic#:~:text=An ASIC is evidence that,the airport owner or operator.

 

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

https://www.auscheck.gov.au/security-card/aviation/asic#:~:text=An ASIC is evidence that,the airport owner or operator.

 

Hi Turb,

Speed read of above doesn't actually say visiting pilot needs an ASIC - have I missed something in the above andalso prior changes to ASIC??

[turboplanner]

4 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Hi Turb,

Speed read of above doesn't actually say visiting pilot needs an ASIC - have I missed something in the above andalso prior changes to ASIC??

I think a lot of people may have missed a lot of detail and should do some careful reading.

[Blueadventures]

I've just renewed my ASIC, bit poorer; but hey I can wear it and walk around full of importance and superiority😁🙃😎🤠🤓

[turboplanner]

5 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

I've just renewed my ASIC, bit poorer; but hey I can wear it and walk around full of importance and superiority😁🙃😎🤠🤓

In what I posted above would you have needed it just flying in the Mackay area?

Edited November 6, 2023 by turboplanner

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Blueadventures said:

I've just renewed my ASIC, bit poorer; but hey I can wear it and walk around full of importance and superiority😁🙃😎🤠🤓

I assume you speak in jest

[RossK]

Just putting this here

 

3.03  Requirement to display ASICs in secure areas

             (1)  Subject to subregulations (4), (4A) and (5), regulations 3.05 to 3.09 and subregulations 3.18(2) and 3.26(2):

                     (a)  a person in the airside security zone of a security controlled airport must properly display a valid red ASIC; and

                     (b)  a person in a secure area (other than the airside security zone) of such an airport must properly display either a valid red ASIC or a valid grey ASIC.

Penalty:  5 penalty units.

Note 1:       The requirement in subregulation (1) applies to a person who is accessing parts of the sterile area not generally accessible to passengers or the public.

Note 2:       For properly displaying, see regulation 1.04; for valid, see regulation 1.05; for secure area, see regulation 1.03.

Note 3:       A person who properly displays a valid VIC or TAC, and is supervised by a person who properly displays a valid ASIC, need not display a valid ASIC—see regulation 3.09.

             (2)  To avoid doubt, the obligations in subregulation (1) apply to crew.

             (3)  A contravention of subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.

             (4)  Subregulation (1) does not apply in relation to a security controlled airport from or to which no regular public transport operation operates.

          (4A)  At a security controlled airport from or to which no screened air service operates, paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) apply only during traffic periods.

          (4B)  To avoid doubt, there is no requirement that a person display a VIC or TAC in the secure area of an airport referred to in subregulation (4A) other than during traffic periods.

 

traffic period, for a security controlled airport, means a period that begins 2 hours before the scheduled time of arrival, and ends 2 hours after the actual time of departure, of a scheduled air service that operates to or from the airport.

[RossK]

Duplicate post

Edited November 8, 2023 by RossK
Duplicate post

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, RossK said:

Just putting this here

 

3.03  Requirement to display ASICs in secure areas

             (1)  Subject to subregulations (4), (4A) and (5), regulations 3.05 to 3.09 and subregulations 3.18(2) and 3.26(2):

                     (a)  a person in the airside security zone of a security controlled airport must properly display a valid red ASIC; and

I presume the "airside security zone" is the inside the security fence or is there likely to be a smaller "zone" around the RPT parking area?                   

Penalty:  5 penalty units. = $961.55 What dim witted bureaucrat came up with this overreach?

Note 1:       The requirement in subregulation (1) applies to a person who is accessing parts of the sterile area not generally accessible to passengers or the public.

Note 2:       For properly displaying, see regulation 1.04; for valid, see regulation 1.05; for secure area, see regulation 1.03.

For the purposes of section 31 of the Act, the following type of airside security zone is prescribed, that is, the security restricted area.

1 hour ago, RossK said:

 

             (2)  To avoid doubt, the obligations in subregulation (1) apply to crew.

             (3)  A contravention of subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.

             (4)  Subregulation (1) does not apply in relation to a security controlled airport from or to which no regular public transport operation operates. Wow such common sense - who'd have expected that?

          (4A)  At a security controlled airport from or to which no screened air service operates, paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) apply only during traffic periods.        

 

traffic period, for a security controlled airport, means a period that begins 2 hours before the scheduled time of arrival, and ends 2 hours after the actual time of departure, of a scheduled air service that operates to or from the airport.

So the terrorist is a tad late arriving after RPT departs, WTF is he to do now????

I can understand that there needs to be some security around an aircraft that has arrived, standing on apron, departing but 2hrs either side, likely over 4 hrs/ 1/2 the working day, is just nuts.

I lived for a time in N Ireland - the IRA had morters that they fired from outside the airport precinct - is this something that our valiant authorities are anticipating - if so they might need to rethink the whole ridiculous ASIC system, as it relates to most inland airports.

 

[skippydiesel]

Thanks for confirming my long held opinion of ASIC.

As I understood ASIC applies to almost all RPT airports, and all areas within the so called secure areas (I hear derisive laughter).

Access, by non ASIC holders,  will not be available for  at least 1/2 a day, every time an RPT is due. Two RPT's, a few hours apart ,will see the airfield closed.

The fining of  non compliant  pilots - The reality is that the authorities are, in lieu of adequate policing/implementation, using the threat of a large fine to frighten pilots into having an ASIC. Do we have a police state?

There is no good reason for ASIC to be imposed on the vast majority of inland RPT airports - it's the proverbial crock of....

 

Bad legislation:

Australians have a long and glorious history of ignoring bad legislation (even when the authorities refuse to remove it from the statute books). Unfortunatly this leaves the legislation available, when the authorities decide to makan example of someone - throwing the book at the poor sod.

 

[skippydiesel]

Just had a random thought:

 

Does not our law require that payment for a service/good can not be demanded (illegal) where no such service/good exists (eg QANTAS is facing court over selling tickets for non existent/cancelled services).

 

I would suggest that ASIC is a non service (in that it provides no demonstrable benefit to the customer - we the proletariat ) and therefore illegal under our system of law.

[RossK]

8 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

I lived for a time in N Ireland - the IRA had morters that they fired from outside the airport precinct - is this something that our valiant authorities are anticipating - if so they might need to rethink the whole ridiculous ASIC system, as it relates to most inland airports.

 

They don't care what you do to the aircraft.

They are more concerned about what you will do with the aircraft and to a lesser extent, it's passengers.

 

Yes agree, it's good to see a small amount of common sense in the Act, but the 2 hours after departure is dumb.

When you think that you can look up a schedule, plan to arrive two and a half hours after the RPT has left, and get on the ground to be pinged because the RPT was delayed 45 minutes and only left an hour and 45 minutes ago

[skippydiesel]

Come come - should a disgruntled person wish to hijack an RPT aircraft, they just need to purchase a ticket and be ushered onto said aircraft by all the ASIC holding staff.:)