CASA Medical Policy Survey

[spacesailor]

YES ,.

I agree older drivers have a higher statistical number of accidents! .

BUT

I have noticed that due to my 'SLOWER ' speed, l get cut off & tailgated a lot more often.

Whenever l try to use a normal speed, the wife reminds me " We are Not in any hurry now, enjoy the trip ".

I have only been involved in ONE serious accident, but Not the driver, 

AND

 It made utube for almost a year, ( wheel ripped off speeding stolen car, hitting our vehicle ).

Our driver was a professional truckie ! & could do nothing about getting side swiped. 

I didn't feel at all like driving for 18 months afterwards.

64 years with only ' speeding tickets plus 3 for parking, & l won one parking case.

AND now one ' red light ticket ' of 0.5 seconds, shows how Slow l drive, LoL

spacesailor

 

[Ian]

Just remind you wife that it's polite to drive at the signposted speed. Driving slowly creates a traffic hazard and put's those around you at risk and depending upon the jurisdiction may actually land you in hot water.

If you're annoying other motorists there's something fundamentally wrong with your technique which you should look into.

I followed an elderly gent driving the other day doing about 50km/h in an 80 zone. After pausing at a roundabout he drove out in front of a couple of cars which honked at him and he just hunkered down behind the wheel. I worry about drivers like that going through a school zone.

 

Rather than an age based driving test I'd prefer to see a voting system where other drivers could nominate a driver for a test. Collect a couple of votes and you get a mandatory test. Both fast and slow drivers could be nominated however only allow one or two votes per person per year to stop the haters. The gent the other day would have taken my vote for the year and I suspect that he'd be removed from the road pretty quickly.

 

It's interesting as some people age they try to slow down to reduce perceived risks, this includes just walking around however what often happens is that your abilities evolve to match the constraints. What often changes is stride length, as people age they often significantly reduce their stride length which eventually makes them unstable on their feet as the lose the ability to take a large step to stop falling, so remember even if you're slowing down make sure that you take big steps ;-).

 

 

[onetrack]

As you get older, you have to lift your feet when you walk. If you start shuffling, that's a good indicator of seriously declining health, and is often the precursor to dementia.

[spacesailor]

OR !.

You need a New hip.

Seriously shortened my stride to a half shioe shuffle.

Now genuinely trying to get my stride back.

This morning,  a few minutes jog,  ten touch toes, ten star jumps, 60 pushups , ( half on seat half on table ).

And a slow walk back home. LoL ( weight down to 91.5 kg ).

spacesailor

[old man emu]

Our roads are no longer simply the cleared and  prepared tracks which allow us to get from A to B. They are an intimate part of our whole economy. We know that "Time is Money", and that should be foremost in our decisions about where we place our vehicles on the road, and at what speed we travel. A retired bloke might not be in a hurry, but lots of other road users are "on the clock" and every minute spent in their vehicle is either lost income because they can't do their paid work (tradies), or lost productivity because they can't get enough work done (truckies). 

 

The most commonly broken traffic Regulation on multi-lane roads is the Regulation requiring that you drive in the left hand lane. A common misunderstanding about Australian roads is the rule about staying in the left lane when driving on a major road or motorway. While most drivers obey the rule, some believe it doesn't apply unless there is a "keep left unless overtaking" sign visible. To clarify, according to road legislation, you are legally required to stay in the left lane regardless of whether there is signage indicating so. This applies in all states and territories across Australia with slight variations depending on where you are. Basically, if the speed limit is 80 Kph or more, then you can't sit in right hand lanes.

 What about Peak Hour on motorways? That's the exception. If travelling in the right hand lanes would result in lowering the congestion and have the traffic flow improve, then it's OK.

 

Actually, I'd like to see a penalty for travelling at a speed more than 5 Kph less than the posted speed limit on multilane roads. That would keep Learners. P-Platers, Grey Nomads and heavy vehicles to the left, allowing other vehicles to travel up to the signposted speed limit to overtake. We should introduce the European rule that slow vehicles must travel in the kerbside lane.

[jackc]

We have 3 problems, drivers with no care for others, cars with razor sharp power steering and,  cruise  controls….

[Ian]

Back to the matter at hand.

I hope that everyone did respond to the survey, and they encouraged their acquaintances to do the same. Key messages are

• It is more important to watch what you eat rather than get a medical. (more incapacitation due to food)
• Reuse, don't recreate, don't replace an ineffective bureaucratic control with another ineffective bureaucratic control. There's an existing standard just use it.
• Redirect the funding to where accidents actually occur, focus on providing material to teach people how to measure fuel, how to not fly into clouds and how to retain control of their airplane.

I'd also like to see

• the flight school system reformed so that qualified instructors can operate outside the artificial model of a school and provide flexible instruction as required. There are a lot of people who want to learn to fly however the opportunities and costs are often prohibitive.
• Policies and funding encouraging the creation of  more airstrips and aerodromes in fire prone areas. We need operational areas established which enable a concerted early suppression of fires. While helicopters can provide limited suppression what is needed is a workhorse with a combination of range, speed and capacity at low cost. There is probably enough capacity in the recently retired brigade to man such an endevour, especially if additional training was provided. 

 

[jackc]

Want to keep the Aviation budget low with minimal instruction cost, and no problem medicals.  We need a Foundation Aviation sector for Australia.  Just copy FAA FAR Part 103 in its entirety, from the U.S.  It just celebrated it 40th anniversary recently.

[kgwilson]

If CASA adopted the same principles as they did when the UK surveyed its pilots back in 2015 all GA & RA pilots would be self certifying by now. The result was that UK private pilots flying aircraft under 5700kgs self certify once up to the age of 70 that they are capable of driving a car (There is no requirement to actually have a licence) and every 3 years after the age of 70.

 

This is from the UK CAP 1284 published back in June 2015  on GA regulation

 

To guide us in doing this, we set out the following principles: 

Only regulate directly when necessary and do so proportionately; 

Deregulate where we can; 

Delegate where appropriate; 

Do not gold-plate, and quickly and efficiently remove gold-plating that already exists.

 

The GA Policy Framework1 was published in November 2014 and is the mechanism by which we will deliver on those principles while continuing to meet our statutory duties to protect the public.

 

Based on past performance I guess we should be grateful that they are even considering medical self certification.

[facthunter]

Just going through the motions only soils your hands and makes people wary of dealing with you. Nev

[Ian]

The report doesn't bode particularly well for the minimal approach

https://www.casa.gov.au/first-part-67-twg-report

It might be worthwhile getting appropriate representation on this working group as it is currently made upon of members whole profession depends upon the current process.

[Ian]

The members of the committee are:

• Dr Anthony McArthy
• Dr Jeremy Robertson
• Dr Sara Souter
• Dr Priti Bhatt (Didn't attend)
• Dr Ian Hosegood
• Peter Antonenko
• Matt Bouttell
• John Raby (Didn't attend)
• Will Stamatopoulos (Didn't attend)

It is concerning that the current approach to the committee selection provides a degree of medical expertise with more that 50% representation, however there is not a similar representation by the flying community, the ATSB or people with the relevant mathematical skills to assess risk appropriately. For example even someone with a B Medical Mathematics would provide signficantly greater rigor to the process.

One of the key outcomes of studies into air safety is that the types of conditions identified by the specialist Aviation medical community rarely contribute to incidents involving pilot incapacitation. It is conceivable that providing advice to pilots in relation to food choices prior to flight would provide a greater benefit that the current regulatory process.

 

[jackc]

One would’ve thought members from the coalface should’ve been included?

[kgwilson]

Typical of bureaucrats. The precedents are there from other civil aviation authorities around the world, but NO, CASA has to make it as complex and as expensive as possible to eventually come up with something 10 years behind everyone else that bears little resemblance to the original purpose.

[Ian]

On 22/06/2022 at 10:22 AM, jackc said:

One would’ve thought members from the coalface should’ve been included?

I agree however there are a number of factors at play here. Some of which appear to be self interest where conflict of interest should be declared.

At the very least there should be significant representation from aviation groups which should include.

• The PPL community
• The commercial industry
• The Gliding community

I struggle to see why there are so many AV med representatives, it is a well understood science and all of the representatives should understand them well. Two representatives should be more than sufficient.

Also the terms of reference should explicitly reference the international experience which should be the key driver for change.

If there hasn't been an increase in accidents related to self certification of medicals then the existing process would appear to provide little value. It should be up to the committee to justify how any additional process would add value.

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Ian

[Thruster88]

Renewed my class2 medical today. Learned a little bit about the current process. I am now confident self declared medicals will come for PPL license holders.

[rgmwa]

8 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

Renewed my class2 medical today. Learned a little bit about the current process. I am now confident self declared medicals will come for PPL license holders.

Good, but when?

[kgwilson]

Probably about 10 years after the rest of the world, 2025.

[Ian]

On 02/07/2022 at 3:15 PM, Thruster88 said:

Renewed my class2 medical today. Learned a little bit about the current process. I am now confident self declared medicals will come for PPL license holders.

I like your confidence however I wasn't particularly optimistic based upon the views of the working group. From a quick review the thrust of the working group was to harmonize with NZ standards as the best approach and develop new standards.

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

On 18/6/2022 at 8:06 PM, spacesailor said:

YES ,.

I agree older drivers have a higher statistical number of accidents! .

BUT

I have noticed that due to my 'SLOWER ' speed, l get cut off & tailgated a lot more often.

Whenever l try to use a normal speed, the wife reminds me " We are Not in any hurry now, enjoy the trip ".

I have only been involved in ONE serious accident, but Not the driver, 

AND

 It made utube for almost a year, ( wheel ripped off speeding stolen car, hitting our vehicle ).

Our driver was a professional truckie ! & could do nothing about getting side swiped. 

I didn't feel at all like driving for 18 months afterwards.

64 years with only ' speeding tickets plus 3 for parking, & l won one parking case.

AND now one ' red light ticket ' of 0.5 seconds, shows how Slow l drive, LoL

spacesailor

 

That’s your wife being wrong - unless she’s scared of your driving and not game to say. 

 

My understanding was that very old and very young drivers have about the same number of accidents.  

[Possum1]

The August CASA Briefing reports a "phenomenal response of more than 600 submissions." This is certainly encouraging but this review and the possibility of self-certified medicals was raised in mid-November 2021 - 9 months ago. A result from CASA does not seem in any way imminent.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I said it before, but I reckon that if you have reached 70 intact, you should be given credit for knowing how to survive.

One day, my grandson Zaccy said " you are real old Grandpa, are you gunna die soon?

I replied " Listen, Zaccy, there are lots of kids your age that will die before I do because I have learned when I gotta be careful"

[Possum1]

Rang AvMed today. The lady at the other end had never heard of the proposed Class 4 or Class 5 medicals, self-declared medical certificates and had never heard of the Technical Working Group or Part 67. She also had never heard of the doctors and others in the group and had never heard of the possibility of CASA adopting the new NZ CAA PPL standard which started in April 2021.

 

She also could not put me in touch with anybody with any connection to the TWG to explain what stage they were at and when some recommendations and implementation would be forthcoming.

 

Was this ignorance real or feigned? Perhaps some pilots out there who would like to continue flying their GA planes would like to make some similar enquiries. The number is 131757.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Possum1

[Bruce Tuncks]

The first lot of ignorance is likely ( sadly) real. Answering the phone is a low-level job. But she should have been able to put you onto her boss at least...  that is likely feigned.

Once, when we had an old Czech guy for a nightwatchman at the gliding club, he heard some thieves breaking into our bar. So he got out the phone we had given him for just this purpose and rang 000.    Well she was an idiot on the other end. She didn't believe "Two Wells Road"...  anyway, they both hung up in anger with the robbery still in noisy progress.

I guess the guy's thick accent didn't help , but I would have expected more from somebody answering 000 for the police.

[Possum1]

Still, I think pilots should be ringing AvMed making genuine enquiries about the coming implementation of the self-declared pilot medical certificate and force CASA into a position where they must properly brief their staff on what is really happening.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Possum1