Private Training - A cheaper option?

[Jeffmel]

II am undertaking training towards PPL/CPL. It just came across my mind, can I asked a mate who holds a CPL and instructor rating, and conduct "private training", using a rental airoplane. 

 

Currently flying with a school but they only have Warrier/C172, for $380/h. The other club has C150 at super low rate ($160/h wet). Can I say pay $100 per hour for an instrucor (maybe from another school) and get him to fly with me in the smaller plane? There will be considerable savings and convinence right?

 

Anyone has any experience?

[JMLIS]

Some schools will train you in your own aircraft, I don't know if that includes a hired aircraft. Perhaps the reason the C150 is so cheap is because it is not used for training, or may require a minimum number of hours for the pilot? Are both aircraft on the same field or would you have to fly it over. I think, but am not sure, that the instructor will need a licenced school controlling them before they can operate.

 

[onetrack]

I see no reason why a flying instructor, who is fully qualified, can't teach a flying student in a "non-flying school" aircraft. The instructor must also hold qualifications in training and assessment.

The "fly in the ointment" will possibly be in the aircraft rental terms and conditions. I can't see anyone renting an aircraft for it to be used for flying training, as flying training is always recognised as being hard on aircraft.

There are also insurance issues to be addressed. If the rental companys aircraft insurance doesn't specifically cover using the rental aircraft for training, you won't be able to do it.

[robinsm]

I built my own RAA aircraft and was trained in it by a qualified instructor, no problems.  Not sure about GA aircaft.   Check the rules online or ask a flight instructor.

 

 

 

[kgwilson]

So long as the aircraft is factory built, with a current maintenance release and has dual controls an authorised Instructor GA or RA can train you in it. If you have built your own aircraft you can be trained in it as well.

[facthunter]

It's subject to the instructor agreeing and some planes (including a DH 82 Tiger Moth) are NOT approved for initial training. In RAAus the FTF has to employ the instructor. I have not known any instructors who operate as individual entities. For BFR's I've had CFI's who come to where my plane was located for my convenience (at extra cost).   Nev

[onetrack]

It appears that CASA rules that all flight training must take place in a suitable (i.e. approved) flight training facility, under CASR Part 141 - and this includes RA-Aus training. So private training in a rental aircraft would not meet those requirements.

 

https://www.casa.gov.au/licences-and-certificates/flight-instructors/certification-flight-training-operators/flight-training-locations

 

Here's an interesting ATSB report, where the flying instructor of a Temporary Satellite Flight Training Facility (TSFTF) possessed adequate flying training skills, but he/she did not possess the required pilot training briefing materials, as required by CASA and RA-Aus.

 

"RA-Aus operations staff undertook a review of the performance of the senior instructor who provided the pilot’s training. That review found that the instructor had adequate aeronautical knowledge but did not possess any formal and consistent briefing material for pilots. In response, he was tasked to produce a set of standardised pilot briefing notes."

 

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2011/aair/ao-2011-126/si-01/

[Ian]

You should just be able to engage and instructor to teach you the skills. Unfortunately it's a bit more broken than that.

 

The current approach to flight training is pretty archiac and geared toward propping up a business model rather than achieving an outcome. An independent review should occur.

There are also training shortcuts which don't appear to have any real merit apart and have occurred simply because of lobbying by the organisations involved.

For example a student who studies at an integrated flight school requires fewer hours to achieve the same qualification. https://www.casa.gov.au/licences-and-certificates/pilots/pilot-licences/commercial-pilot-licences/getting-commercial-pilot-licence-cpl

The continued requirement for a classroom, given that students at most universities only go to uni for exams (not during covid) and practicals and most students watch the lectures at times of their own choosing the requirement to have a physical school is a bit dumb.

 

It would be significantly better if the following could occur.

• An independant instructor could instruct a student who is of the pilots choosing.
• An independent assessors/Examinors could assess progress and validate progress is sufficient, this person should also be of the students choosing.
• The aircraft should simply be one in which the instructor and student believe is suitable to instruct in.
• CASA should responsibility for the entirety of the theory testing. There's a conflict associated with having those responsible for teaching, scrutinizing exams, especially when performed on a 1 on 1 basis.

It appears that flight schools were modeled on the requirements of WW2 flight schools and the underlying model hasn't really been questioned ever since.

 

If I had to distill the thought processes associated with flight schools it can be distilled down to a single item its the continued use of slide rules such as the e6b calculator. Guys it's not a computer, its a calculator and not a very good one at that.

I was probably in the last generation of students who learnt how to use slide rules and they were considered outdated then and I'm getting on. I'm aware of the arguments associated with their continued use and they're pretty much bullshit. I can't point to a single near miss prevented by an e6b

This isn't to say that I don't like the little whizz wheels, they're fun to tool around with. But the pleasure I get in using it is the same pleasure that I get pulling a 1950 victa lawnmower out from under a house and making it roar back to life. Would I mow the lawn with it? No of course not. But the real question is would I keep it as a spare mower just in case and the answer to that is no, if I wanted a spare I'd have a spare new mower. 

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

There,s an old Rumour !.

A flight training facility can knock back a student to further their bank balance. 

Hopefully it seldom happens. But why those double edged test questions.  If not to keep you in their clutches. 

spacesailor

 

[facthunter]

It's a long time since the AP 1732a was used .  Even so it produced good pilots mainly because we had better aircraft to train in and people who flew were different in that they had more of a purpose than just  fly for fun. Flying was a lot more expensive than it is now. Also the "standing of the flying school had something to do with getting a job in flying. The flying organisations were very much under the eye of DCA and the good ones were well known.  There's a lot you get from just mixing with other pilots and being around planes as they are worked on. . Nev

[jackc]

YouTube can be good at teaching you to fly, getting to episode 22 ‘Going Solo, might be scary though, but after completing the 50 take off ground runs, without any ground loops, you should be good to go 🙂 

[facthunter]

Easier to ground loop on landing with most T/W planes. You use the instructor to show you and save you if you are a bit slow to react. Nev