extinguisher Fire Extinguisher suggestion C182

[Country Flyer]

I would like to install a fire extinguisher into a c182.  Looking for suggestions and brands/ models from Australian suppliers ( I assume this is best)… so size and weight is important, CO2  for electrical fire, best location to install….. any other criteria I need to look at ?…. Do you have one on board ?  Thanks in anticipation.

[440032]

Take a look at AWB 26-002 Issue 3 – 11 January 2018
Selection and Installation of Handheld Portable Fire Extinguishers

[spacesailor]

DRY ICE !.

IT,S LIGHTER.

Of course. Then the heat of the fire will melt that ice, putting out the fire. ( it actually works ).

spacesailor

 

[facthunter]

If there's enough CO2 to extinguish the fire it's not good for YOU either.  A lot of cabin fires, just  use a water graviner. Not good if it's higher voltage electrical. Your other option is dry chemical. There would be info available on this topic that covers it in detail. Cabin fire and smoke.  Nev

[SGM]

Presumably extinguishers in small aircraft are primarily of use on the ground or maybe to tackle a very minor cabin electrical fire.   

I can recall reading somewhere that fireproof gloves were recommended by some - the assertion being if you are flying and experienced any engine-related fire, it would be almost impossible to extinguish it with that much airflow and your focus would be maintaining control during an emergency descent and forced landing (rather than trying to extinguish).

I have also thought a fireproof wool blanket might be handy addition to the kit, it having the benefit of extra "utility" as part of a remote survival kit (or even just to cover loose luggage in turbulent situations)

Edited May 31, 2022 by SGM

[facthunter]

First thing is to remove the combustible material like cut off the fuel supply. IF the engine has disintegrated the lube oil will start a fire easily. Uncontained fires require quick return to  earth without pranging as you are already on fire.   Nev

[RFguy]

Had a recent discussion with MarkDun about this- he's rebuilding a flooded J200.

That J200 had two fuel cocks at  wing joins, and then down to the usual Jabiru 5 litre  header tank- then direct to the firewall .

My J230 has no wing cutoffs ahead of the header tank, just a fuel cock just in front of the trim control   about a foot from the firewall.

 

Mark made the point that he would add a fuel cock like the J230 because otherwise you could shut off the fuel and have the entire header tank still empty into the fire.

In rally cars we used to have plumbed-in fire extinguishers.

With the fibreglass plane, once it starts burnign it wont stop even if the (original ) fuel is taken away, hence Ii am wondering if pumbed-in fire extinguishers are common in these circles ?

-glen.

 

[facthunter]

The commercial stuff has it together with duplicated fire warning systems. (jets) Pistons have zones separated by a firewall.  Cowl gills help make an extinguisher  system more effective. Bigger radials have the oil tank behind the firewall. (zone 2) where all the ancillaries are.  Electrics and hydraulic pumps.    Nev. 

[spacesailor]

QUICK  !.

NOW ON SALE,   airosol fire extinguisher,  4 ,wood, fuel, electrical. Oil & fatsOnly small size & $s.

Aldi,s 

spacesailor

[onetrack]

Spacey, 550g of fire extinguisher product is good for SFA, stating it bluntly. You'd be far better off to purchase a larger dry powder extinguisher, that's built to Australian Standards for fire extinguishers.

 

https://www.aldi.com.au/en/special-buys/special-buys-sat-21-may/saturday-detail-wk20/ps/p/mini-fire-fighter/

[RFguy]

so who knows what sort of fire one needs to put out say a burning resin in fibreglass fire ?

I'll assume the gasoline fire will stop quick if the gasoline is removed.

[onetrack]

Dry powder is pretty good for most fires, but a strong airflow in a still-flying aircraft would have to be the single greatest problem affecting the effectiveness of a fire extinguisher in a light aircraft.

Being able to cut off fuel supply is good, but you can't do much about a burst oil line, or a hole in a major component that is spewing out oil. 

With burning fibreglass, you've got two major concerns - not just the fire, but the toxic smoke as well.

[Kununurra]

If you use a dry powder extinguisher in a cockpit or cabin I hope you have an IFR rating. as you will not see for a few minutes after the extinguisher has discharged due to the fine particles of sodium bicarbonate suspended in the air.

Airlines carry BCF extinguishers as they are fit for purpose on a multitude of fires.

 

A BCF extinguisher has exemptions for use in aircraft and is banned elsewhere for general use due to the environmental concerns.

 

They are reasonably light weight & very effective. As mentioned earlier the side effects are similar to CO2 extinguishers in terms of requiring fresh air.

 

It comes back to the better of 2 evils in my opinion. Extinguish the fire & survive or not.

cheers

 

 

[RFguy]

thanks for the info. I'm thinking of firewall-forward fires, but given the way airflow makes its way into the cabin by so many means . it is likely the powder will get into the cabin...

[facthunter]

 It really shouldn't as if that can happen so can exhaust and that's not on. The cabin is inevitably below ambient air pressure so it can enter from the elevator cut outs. Organise slight positive pressure in the cabin??  Probably slow you down and make doors hard to close in flight.. Nev

[RFguy]

I've pretty used to positive pressure systems in dust free environments.  But agree , "shouldn't" happen. Yeah i forgot the oil can catch fire !  I dont know much about oil fires. Will read up. 

[onetrack]

Some good reading in the link below. To eliminate confusion between "BCF" in extinguishers, and "BCF" as in the retailer (because BCF sell marine extinguishers that are dry powder), BCF extinguishers are more often known as Halon extinguishers.

Halon gas is used where expensive components can be damaged by other types of extinguishers.

 

They're commonly used in confined, enclosed areas, where opening up that area to access for a firefighting stream, can cause a flashover (i.e. - a major thermal runaway event when areas in a fire zone are at a high temperature, but not actually burning, and the opening up of the area creates an inrush of oxygen-laden air which results in an immediate, major upsurge in the fire event).

 

Halon is quite toxic as regards inhalation (as well as damaging to the environment), and smoke hoods are recommended when using Halon in confined areas such as cabins. However, in a cockpit, you simply need to be aware of the breathing toxicity.

 

https://skybrary.aero/articles/halon-fire-extinguishers

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by onetrack

[facthunter]

Pressurised planes have oxygen demand masks for the crew.  Uncontained fire is land as a priority for all aircraft  and get pax off quickly. Nev

[onetrack]

I would guess that smoke in the cockpit of light aircraft presents as a more common event, and a precedent of flames. Smoke in a small cockpit would have to be very life-threatening, very quickly, and it could also cause problems with viewing instruments.

There doesn't appear to be any standard format to follow with light aircraft when smoke appears in the cockpit, apart from ventilating the cockpit, and trying to identify and eliminate the source of the smoke. 

I would have to opine you'd only use an extinguisher as a last resort, when you're actually seeing visible flames. It would be a situation of simply trying to do the best you could do, under the circumstances.

 

https://www.australianflying.com.au/news/what-can-we-learn-handling-smoke-in-the-cockpit

[facthunter]

The routine covers electrical so a system you can isolate and trouble shoot is helpful. In any case turn all nonessential electrical OFF.  and open airvents.   Nev

[Country Flyer]

On 30/5/2022 at 9:44 PM, 440032 said:

Take a look at AWB 26-002 Issue 3 – 11 January 2018
Selection and Installation of Handheld Portable Fire Extinguishers

I have had a read of the above and thank you…... I’m leaning to a co2 for electrical fires inside the cabin, as the 182 has a full upgrade and of course all electrical… but what about an engine fire after you land, or take off… is there a best of two worlds?  Do you need to carry two or will a co2 do the engine fire as well ?  I don’t know enough about them to make an informed decision….. but learning 🙂

Edited June 2, 2022 by Country Flyer

[Country Flyer]

4 hours ago, onetrack said:

Some good reading in the link below. To eliminate confusion between "BCF" in extinguishers, and "BCF" as in the retailer (because BCF sell marine extinguishers that are dry powder), BCF extinguishers are more often known as Halon extinguishers.

Halon gas is used where expensive components can be damaged by other types of extinguishers.

 

They're commonly used in confined, enclosed areas, where opening up that area to access for a firefighting stream, can cause a flashover (i.e. - a major thermal runaway event when areas in a fire zone are at a high temperature, but not actually burning, and the opening up of the area creates an inrush of oxygen-laden air which results in an immediate, major upsurge in the fire event).

 

Halon is quite toxic as regards inhalation (as well as damaging to the environment), and smoke hoods are recommended when using Halon in confined areas such as cabins. However, in a cockpit, you simply need to be aware of the breathing toxicity.

 

https://skybrary.aero/articles/halon-fire-extinguishers

 

Thankyou one track.  Makes for an interesting read.  I’ll do a ‘bit’ of chatting with a few flight schools and trading units and see what they suggest as well.

[Mike Gearon]

My avionics guy just showe me these. He picks up unknown aircraft regularly and has quite an emergency package with water etc and this very small extinguisher. 

 

PRODUCT INFORMATION

 

The Ultra-Compact Fire Extinguisher doesn't consume oxygen but chemically bonds potassium radicals to the oxygen molecules which interrupts the chain of combustion and prohibits the oxygen from being a combustible fuel. So the extinguisher can be used in enclosed spaces such as the inside of a car without the fear of suffocating occupants. Since the unit discharges with zero thrust it will not spread oil and liquid fires under the hood, in the kitchen, shop, or anywhere else. It measures 10 1/2 inches in length, extinguishes for 50 seconds, and can be aimed and held with one hand, distancing the user from danger. The gas cloud is heavier than air so it settles on the flames, deterring propagation. The Ultra-Compact Fire Extinguisher is easy to mount or store under your seat... Get one for every car you own, your garage, and your home.

 

 

 

 

[Mike Gearon]

7 minutes ago, Arron25 said:

Looks good.. Do you know if there is there an Aus supplier ....or only supplied direct with $60 freight and markup via eBay. Would concider a couple for the car instead of the 2 1/2 kg dry powder I carry 

I just spotted that it can’t be air shipped due to FAA regs! Try googling some of the key words like potassium radicals. I’ll ship some in a 20’ container in September with am aircraft and various bits.

 

 

[440032]

Here's a question or seven.

How many of us have had the actual need to use a fire extinguisher stored in an aircraft? (or even a car?)

Would it be more likely useful to assist someone else while you are on the ground, or for yourself in flight or on the ground.

How many of us have ever had to use a fire extinguisher anywhere in real life - or seen one used? Very few me thinks.