Emergency landing and inversion 13/06/2022

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, Mike Gearon said:

I haven’t remembered this yet in order to forget it. 

When you get to this part of the course it's brain overload; if you want to stay at reasonable altitudes for a light aircraft its amazing how many tracks can no longer be straight and how difficult it is to find a pathway through those pricks of rock that stick up into the cloud. There are plenty of ATSB stories that provide lessons about pilots who'd flown the area for years then made their last flight in IFR.

 

The one that sticks in my mind was a group of six sky divers in a twin flying from Perth to Melbourne - pretty much flat all the way for IFR. They were flying IFR at night, following the Western Highway from Horsham to Melbourne (which itself gives us some clues) when they flew into Mount Cole, 3000 feet, 3 Nm to the north of their track. All were killed instantly.

[Garfly]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

When you get to this part of the course it's brain overload; if you want to stay at reasonable altitudes for a light aircraft its amazing how many tracks can no longer be straight and how difficult it is to find a pathway through those pricks of rock that stick up into the cloud. There are plenty of ATSB stories that provide lessons about pilots who'd flown the area for years then made their last flight in IFR.

 

The one that sticks in my mind was a group of six sky divers in a twin flying from Perth to Melbourne - pretty much flat all the way for IFR. They were flying IFR at night, following the Western Highway from Horsham to Melbourne (which itself gives us some clues) when they flew into Mount Cole, 3000 feet, 3 Nm to the north of their track. All were killed instantly.

 

I'd've thought that IFR planning - with a mandatory LSALT for each sector -  would be one of the simpler aspects of instrument flying.  I've imagined that picking pathways between peaks was a sport for the lowly VFR crowd only.  Anyway, such accidents as that are less likely nowadays with the likes of "LSALT Assistant" available to all:

 

https://docs.ozrunways.com/ozrunways/10_terrain-and-airspace.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Garfly

[facthunter]

It's debateable what value LSALT is to VFR flying. In Alpine areas you fly over ridges etc and KNOW what height the ridge you  have to clear is  AND what the cloud base is. IF you cease to be able to stay in VMC then you have more issues than just not hitting high ground. IF you've worked out a LSALT for  your track the minute you deviate from track, your basis for the Original LSALT has gone. A WAC Chart shows hypsometric tinting and spot heights.. that don't change much unless a thing like a fire tower has been changed.  Nev

[turboplanner]

44 minutes ago, facthunter said:

It's debateable what value LSALT is to VFR flying. In Alpine areas you fly over ridges etc and KNOW what height the ridge you  have to clear is  AND what the cloud base is. IF you cease to be able to stay in VMC then you have more issues than just not hitting high ground. IF you've worked out a LSALT for  your track the minute you deviate from track, your basis for the Original LSALT has gone. A WAC Chart shows hypsometric tinting and spot heights.. that don't change much unless a thing like a fire tower has been changed.  Nev

 

1 hour ago, Garfly said:

 

I'd've thought that IFR planning - with a mandatory LSALT for each sector -  would be one of the simpler aspects of instrument flying.  I've imagined that picking pathways between peaks was a sport for the lowly VFR crowd only.  Anyway, such accidents as that are less likely nowadays with the likes of "LSALT Assistant" available to all:

 

https://docs.ozrunways.com/ozrunways/10_terrain-and-airspace.html

 

 

There will always be people who don't want to learn; for these I'd recommend the ATSB report on the Vicpol helicopter "LSALT Assistant" and all.

 

[turboplanner]

47 minutes ago, facthunter said:

It's debateable what value LSALT is to VFR flying. In Alpine areas you fly over ridges etc and KNOW what height the ridge you  have to clear is  AND what the cloud base is. IF you cease to be able to stay in VMC then you have more issues than just not hitting high ground. IF you've worked out a LSALT for  your track the minute you deviate from track, your basis for the Original LSALT has gone. A WAC Chart shows hypsometric tinting and spot heights.. that don't change much unless a thing like a fire tower has been changed.  Nev

We were talking about IFR training.

[Garfly]

5 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

 

There will always be people who don't want to learn; 

 

Nobody who tackles an IFR rating would be in that category. 

 

[facthunter]

It's an inappropriate comment.. The context should be considered as always. I've had friends who had a CFIT and  listing a published LSALT would have made no difference.  A VFR flight is just that and if you aren't IFR rated and have recency you won't cope with the  Non VMC situation, most likely. Nev

[Garfly]

3 minutes ago, facthunter said:

It's an inappropriate comment.. The context should be considered as always. I've had friends who had a CFIT and  listing a published LSALT would have made no difference.  A VFR flight is just that and if you aren't IFR rated and have recency you won't cope with the  Non VMC situation, most likely. Nev

Which comment did you mean?  Anyway, we're clearly at cross purposes.

[turboplanner]

50 minutes ago, facthunter said:

It's an inappropriate comment.. The context should be considered as always. I've had friends who had a CFIT and  listing a published LSALT would have made no difference.  A VFR flight is just that and if you aren't IFR rated and have recency you won't cope with the  Non VMC situation, most likely. Nev

What are you talking about? who mentioned VFR?

[Mike Gearon]

I’m having 2 days off flying. My CFI has 2 days off. It’ll do me good as well. Mount Rushmore visit. Not the 4 presidents. I’ll ignore them.  Visiting Crazy Horse. The original sculpture was formidable as of course was Crazy Horse.  Be nice to see it finished one day.
 

I finally have a complete understanding of VOR’s. in USA for checkride you have to be able to find one, check the Morse code then fly toward it and then tune another. Same for IFR for PPL in USA. You do it just enough to either find your way home VOR or 180 degree from IFR conditions. Pass checkride.

 

I finally get how to tune a VOR and determine if I’m flying toward or away from it and which side I’m on. Only taken about 4 weeks and it’s suddenly easy. 

 

 

[Marty_d]

22 hours ago, Mike Gearon said:

Visiting Crazy Horse.

I used to enjoy that too.  The Adelaide one of course.

[derekliston]

On 19/06/2022 at 11:21 PM, Mike Gearon said:

That’s a good point.
 

1. My situation involves an American wife and a deal to spend time in USA each year. So… while I’d like to be in Australia we have a 98 y.o. American mum and Deb has an operation coming up that has to be in USA. (Long story) what to do in USA? Fly!
 

2. It’s also a little cheaper to fly in USA and huge aviation resources everywhere you go. 
 

3. I’m converting FAA PPL to CASA as well. I’ve been jumping through appropriate hoops including an English language proficiency test. (Yes, it seems crazy but we want to be politically correct)  I’ll bring tail endorsement, night VFR, float plane and hopefully IFR. I’ve asked the question on IFR and can’t see why it won’t convert. It happens all the time for commercial overseas pilots.

 

Glider won’t convert. I know this for a fact. Pity! That was a gruelling 5 hour exam and checkride last year.

 

Yes, same inputs and in time allowing fairly wide latitude on mistakes. Early in my training with young instructors on their way to the airlines they’d always flair the Cessna. It was so frustrating not getting to feel the inputs. 
 

Re instructor preflight and post briefing. Huge benefit. In training after PPL if I wasn’t provided with this I’d ask for it. “Please brief me and are there any things you expect I’ll do wrong and can we talk about them now?”

 

First IFR training flight in late 2021 I asked this. Instructor refused. We started flying hood on. I’d tried preparing with YouTube’s… I had 3 hours IFR as part of American PPL..Still my corrections were way too big. Incredibly frustrating. A pre flight brief would have helped hugely. Turned out this instructor was notorious for being a dick. Enjoys belittling his students and you can’t get to do that as much if you’ve prepared them. 
 

 

I’ve had instructors like that and after the first experience with them I refused to fly with them. Just told the school “It’s my money, so I’ll choose who I spend it with!”

[flyhi]

On 14/06/2022 at 1:52 PM, FlyBoy1960 said:

 

I don't know if that is appropriate when you look at all of the oil stains on the bottom of the aircraft. It looks like a major failure of the engine and there is oil everywhere but if you prefer to say he ran out of fuel, that is okay

Ran out of oil alright. Oil filter was missing after landing !!!!

[planedriver]

WOW! That'll do it every time.

 

 

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, flyhi said:

Ran out of oil alright. Oil filter was missing after landing !!!!

Thanks for that; have seen it happen with screw ons on car engines, often though hand tightening then getting  phone call etc, missing that last 3/4 turn.

[BrendAn]

 TS and PS were in the green

[Mike Gearon]

On 22/6/2022 at 6:19 AM, Marty_d said:

I used to enjoy that too.  The Adelaide one of course.

I’ve just seen this post. Sad thing is I couldn’t even tell you if the Melbourne Crazy Horse is still there. 

[MattP]

On 20/6/2022 at 11:40 PM, Mike Gearon said:

Yes, I’ve thought as well of the reduced stress of a simulator. Hot summer conditions here are playing hell with altitude. 1100ft climb yesterday with thermal and attitude in the between brown and green. 1000ft descent followed  and a learning experience. I pulled up too hard and had the CFI gentle the response. I’ve banked that one for future reference. Without visual clues it’s easy to overdo. On that subject … steep turns under the hood yesterday. That’s a scary experience you’re not going to get in a simulator. 
 

Also, while the USA has great aviation resources Rapid City is very country remote. I’ll ask today if we can cross country to a sim. 5 hours today. We could get somewhere.

 

We are mixing it up. DME say 10 miles out on VOR as fix as example and yes timed or NM let’s Establishing in my head the whole thing is still a little out of reach. Yesterday we were doing TO/ FROM and reverse sensing. I get this. If direction and VOR are opposite it’s reverse sensing and I fly away from the line. Yeah, can do that. Then add a hold fix and I’m totally confused. In a sim I can see it’s easier. Pause and review. 

The combination of sim and pre and post flight briefings can’t be under estimated in your ifr training. Especially for holds and approaches as you can digest some theory, load up the sim, practice the work, have the instructor pause it then brief in the sim and continue as you go, helped me no end in the early stages compared to burning money and fuel in the air trying to get it right. Note I had access to a motion sim for the aircraft I was flying as part of this so immersion was much better than a basic fixed base generic sim but either way they both serve the same purpose.
 

the other advantage of using a sim is home sims like xplane are good enough to practice the theory at home and re enforce the concept. Once you have that stuff click, the real thing becomes much easier. You just have to put up with the small differences in the way they implement some of the gps functionality and work around that, but for manual hold practice it’s not too bad.

 

I also use the home sim to keep my brain in it when I can’t fly as often as I like, and before flights to just ensure I’m mentally there.

 

One thing on the ifr flying aspect is currency is king, it doesn’t matter how many hours you have, if you’re not current and ready to go. I use this as a forcing function to keep as current as possible and fly regularly, or as regularly as time and money permit!

 

Good luck with the training, and don’t forget to enjoy it too.

[Thruster88]

22 hours ago, BrendAn said:

 TS and PS were in the green

I would love to see what the big end bearing looked like. That piston must have got pretty hot to have that plastic deformation around the gudgeon pin. 

[facthunter]

They need the anti squeak, Otherwise a lot of welding and bending happens. Nev

[Mike Gearon]

5 hours ago, MattP said:

The combination of sim and pre and post flight briefings can’t be under estimated in your ifr training. Especially for holds and approaches as you can digest some theory, load up the sim, practice the work, have the instructor pause it then brief in the sim and continue as you go, helped me no end in the early stages compared to burning money and fuel in the air trying to get it right. Note I had access to a motion sim for the aircraft I was flying as part of this so immersion was much better than a basic fixed base generic sim but either way they both serve the same purpose.
 

the other advantage of using a sim is home sims like xplane are good enough to practice the theory at home and re enforce the concept. Once you have that stuff click, the real thing becomes much easier. You just have to put up with the small differences in the way they implement some of the gps functionality and work around that, but for manual hold practice it’s not too bad.

 

I also use the home sim to keep my brain in it when I can’t fly as often as I like, and before flights to just ensure I’m mentally there.

 

One thing on the ifr flying aspect is currency is king, it doesn’t matter how many hours you have, if you’re not current and ready to go. I use this as a forcing function to keep as current as possible and fly regularly, or as regularly as time and money permit!

 

Good luck with the training, and don’t forget to enjoy it too.

I think the last sentence most important. I have been forgetting to enjoy it. Trying to take pleasure in great take offs and landings with the view out the window while it lasts.

 

Agreed 100% on sim. I don’t think it’s as common in USA outside the large cities. All done in aircraft. Rapid city as example. No chance to sim and people even driving 3 hours from Wyoming to train there. 
 

Proficiency. Yes, I’m very confident under hood as of this week. Scan is effortless. I also like the reminder this doesn’t stick. It falls away quickly. I’ve heard a number of pilot stories at Linocln. Great thing with having a hangar I’m right next to the hangar that seems to have a bar in it. Up to 8-10 pilots gathered some late afternoons. Good knowledge soak.

IFR training has suffered from 3 moves. Phoenix, Rapid City to Lincoln. Can’t blame anyone for it. I now know what is needed and I work toward that with good instructors.

 

[BrendAn]

4 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

I would love to see what the big end bearing looked like. That piston must have got pretty hot to have that plastic deformation around the gudgeon pin. 

How does an oil filter come loose on a plane. If I wasn't wiring it I would be making sure it was bloody tight. On drill rigs we used to do them tight with a filter strap because the vibration worked them loose. 

[turboplanner]

There is a torquing procedure used on new era engines which is a little bit different, and could possibly be based on manufacturers records that 'x' million filters had never come loose.

 

The procedure specifies a torque value for a fastener (e.g. Head Bolt) then it requires a dial gauge to be fitted and specifies tghtening a specific number of degrees, tensioning the bolt against its thread. These bolts are discarded after one use.

 

Most spin on oil filters now use the same principle, a lot using "smear oil on seal, screw on until seal contact is made, turn filter an additional 3/4 turn.

[Thruster88]

6 hours ago, BrendAn said:

How does an oil filter come loose on a plane. If I wasn't wiring it I would be making sure it was bloody tight. On drill rigs we used to do them tight with a filter strap because the vibration worked them loose. 

The only plausible explanation is if the nipple or oil cooler adapter fitting became substantially un screwed when removing the oil filter. I have seen this on a volvo truck engine, fortunately for me the nipple completely un screwed and remained in the old filter.

 

Picture for example only.

[Blueadventures]

2 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

The only plausible explanation is if the nipple or oil cooler adapter fitting became substantially un screwed when removing the oil filter. I have seen this on a volvo truck engine, fortunately for me the nipple completely un screwed and remained in the old filter.

 

Picture for example only.

Also the filters thread could have been incorrect sizing.