25 registration rotax engine tbo

[glenT300]

Hello community.

 

I have a Thruster T300 which is of 25 rego and after much work and an L2 inspection I believed it to be ready to fly. Turns out my 532 engine, which has only done 117 hrs, is due overhaul due to the 5 year rule on 25 registered aircraft. So, my question is where do I go from here? My plane is certified for either a rotax 503 or 532. Neither of these are in production any more and no one in Australia want to touch them to overhaul due to parts shortage. I've priced up freight to Florida and I'm looking at $1200 each way to send an engine to rotax rick plus overhaul cost. Have I wasted the last year and alot of money on an aircraft which is basically scrap? I was aware of the tbo rule but I was under the impression it wasn't relevant on aircraft for private use. This Clearly isn't the case.  Is it possible to change the 25 registration to another prefect? Is there another engine option I can adopt? Is there any point of either buying or owning a 25 registered plane with this tbo restriction? Looking for advice and options. She's a great little plane in excellent condition that shouldn't go to waste. I would be comfortable flying this engine 'on condition' but I don't think that's an option.

[aro]

Who told you on condition is not allowed? I had a scan of the technical manual and to me it looks like it should be allowed for private work.

 

I didn't see a section specific to 25 reg - I think for the purposes of the regulations it comes under 95.55.

[jackc]

My 25 rego T300 is flying with. 582 on condition, and running fine, however I did order a new complete Rotax motor with g/box so it will be zero time when installed. 

[glenT300]

8 hours ago, aro said:

Who told you on condition is not allowed? I had a scan of the technical manual and to me it looks like it should be allowed for private work.

 

I didn't see a section specific to 25 reg - I think for the purposes of the regulations it comes under 95.55.

One of the registration guys at Raaus. He said because it is 25 rego it is a certified aircraft and therefore an LSA. I did some searching around and found what he said on the RAAUS website. It's a bit stupid because if it was any other prefect you can run on condition.

[glenT300]

7 hours ago, jackc said:

My 25 rego T300 is flying with. 582 on condition, and running fine, however I did order a new complete Rotax motor with g/box so it will be zero time when installed. 

That sounds cool. Was the T300 fitted from factory or was it a mod? I didn’t realise T300 came out with the 582? In my log book it only indicates that mine came out with the 503 or 532 option. Maybe mine was an earlier model but if yours was from factory with the 582 maybe I can go that direction. She must be a rocket with the 582? 

As for on condition it has to be allowed and stated by the manufacturer that you can do it. Maybe it's different it the 582? I might do some digging on that one. Seems like a sensible option if it's possible.

[Thruster88]

Glen, you need to get a definitive ruling from the tech manager, good luck with that. Let us know how that goes. 

In the VH CASA world "on condition" is permitted. Lycoming have a 2000hour or 12 year tbo. For private and AIRWORK ops which includes flying school aircraft, exceeding the tbo is permitted providing the engine meets the 100 hourly or annual inspection. There are thousands of VH aircraft with engines on condition including my two.

 

The way I see it RAAus is just an out station of CASA.

 

A quick look at RAAus aircraft for sale shows most are on condition. If all these aircraft need a new engine it will put a serious dent in the cheap flying.

 

The L2 could show that the engine is on condition due calendar on tech form 13 condition report however I cannot see an item for that on the form.

I have been involved in registration of a few 10 and 25 thrusters in recent times, all have engines on condition due calendar.  

 

[glenT300]

3 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

Glen, you need to get a definitive ruling from the tech manager, good luck with that. Let us know how that goes. 

In the VH CASA world "on condition" is permitted. Lycoming have a 2000hour or 12 year tbo. For private and AIRWORK ops which includes flying school aircraft, exceeding the tbo is permitted providing the engine meets the 100 hourly or annual inspection. There are thousands of VH aircraft with engines on condition including my two.

 

The way I see it RAAus is just an out station of CASA.

 

A quick look at RAAus aircraft for sale shows most are on condition. If all these aircraft need a new engine it will put a serious dent in the cheap flying.

 

The L2 could show that the engine is on condition due calendar on tech form 13 condition report however I cannot see an item for that on the form.

I have been involved in registration of a few 10 and 25 thrusters in recent times, all have engines on condition due calendar.  

 

Thank you for the info. I knew there was something I was missing to the puzzle. I thought this must have been a new rule or an ignored one. I'll get in touch with the tech manager and see what they say. Fingers crossed I get this sorted as painlessly as possible.

[Thruster88]

I don't see how a thruster can be LSA when their production pre dates the introduction of the category 

 

https://www.casa.gov.au/aircraft/sport-aviation/light-sport-aircraft/about-light-sport-aircraft

 

Compared to part 23 certified aircraft (cessna 172) LSA sounds like a free for all yet you cannot run the engine on condition unlike the Cessna. Makes perfect sense not.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Thruster88

[aro]

I would assume that RAA use the LSA definition in CAO 95.55.

 

I don't think it can be a LSA without having a special certificate of airworthiness specifically issued for a light sport aircraft.

 

Otherwise I think it comes under the definition of

 

ultralight aeroplane means an aeroplane (other than a light sport aircraft or lightweight aeroplane) that:

...

(e)   is one of the following:

...

(iv)   an aeroplane to which Air Navigation Order section 95.25 as in force on 25 March 1985 applies (known as an old section 95.25 aeroplane);

 

[glenT300]

I bought this aircraft for cheap affordable flying. Cheap affordable flying isn't having to send my engine overseas for overhaul every 5 years irrespective of how many hours of flying I've done. Mine is an 89 model and they've classified it as certified and a 25 rego so not much I can do about that. Hopefully I get some joy out of the Tech manager. 

[aro]

If the registration is 25- it is a 25 reg, but being a 25- reg or being certified doesn't make it LSA as far as I can see.

[Blueadventures]

57 minutes ago, glenT300 said:

I bought this aircraft for cheap affordable flying. Cheap affordable flying isn't having to send my engine overseas for overhaul every 5 years irrespective of how many hours of flying I've done. Mine is an 89 model and they've classified it as certified and a 25 rego so not much I can do about that. Hopefully I get some joy out of the Tech manager. 

Send Tech the question in an email.

[facthunter]

When I was around two /strokes I never heard of an "elapsed"  time expiry  clause applying to two strokes. It would imply a shelf life as well. The best thing about your motor is the LOW amount of running hours it's done. That's the best indicator of it's life remaining. Used as a 25 plane it's only 300 hours and that's the makers figure. Nev

[jackc]

2 hours ago, glenT300 said:

I bought this aircraft for cheap affordable flying. Cheap affordable flying isn't having to send my engine overseas for overhaul every 5 years irrespective of how many hours of flying I've done. Mine is an 89 model and they've classified it as certified and a 25 rego so not much I can do about that. Hopefully I get some joy out of the Tech manager. 

You don’t need to send it to the U.S.  There is a guy near Melbourne certified to rebuild your engine and be zero timed.

You could look for a 582 and do the same to it, more power and again zero timed.  Would have to hunt up his number for you.

[glenT300]

Just now, jackc said:

You don’t need to send it to the U.S.  There is a guy near Melbourne certified to rebuild your engine and be zero timed.

You could look for a 582 and do the same to it, more power and again zero timed.  Would have to hunt up his number for you.

Is his name Wal? If so I spoke to him and he wouldn't touch it because it's a 532 and parts are a bit of an issue. If it's a different guy I would greatly appreciate his number.

[facthunter]

532 's have crankshaft issues if I recall correctly. 582 is a better engine. In my honest view NONE of them are especially good and the only proper way to check the bearings is by stripping the motor Measuring play is not a conclusive test. Ball and roller bearings fail by surface flaking due fatigue. Hour s and load (RPM). Nev

[glenT300]

1 minute ago, facthunter said:

532 's have crankshaft issues if I recall correctly. 582 is a better engine. In my honest view NONE of them are especially good and the only proper way to check the bearings is by stripping the motor Measuring play is not a conclusive test. Ball and roller bearings fail by surface flaking due fatigue. Hour s and load (RPM). Nev

Hi Nev. Yeah I've heard this about the 532s which is one of the reasons I don't want to throw too much money at it. I'd prefer 4 stroke or a 582 but I don't think I can fit either on the T300 legally. From my understanding the T300 only came out with the 503 or 532. I've emailed RAaus Tech so hopefully they can give me some clarity and direction. Ideally I'd like to fly behind the 532 on condition for a short period of time then upgrade to a 582 in the not too distant future and when the bank permits.

[jackc]

22 minutes ago, glenT300 said:

Is his name Wal? If so I spoke to him and he wouldn't touch it because it's a 532 and parts are a bit of an issue. If it's a different guy I would greatly appreciate his number.

Sorry, it IS Wal.  Maybe best to hunt down a 582 and get him to do it. I was originally going to send him mine to do up, but decided to get a new one……when It comes I will drop my old one out and send it to him and get rebuilt, then I have a spare 🙂 

[440032]

A 25 registered is an aircraft conforming to the now long defunct ANO 95.25 from 1985 era. (later, CAO 95.25)

A 25 aircraft is not an LSA. - that's a whole different animal.

 

[glenT300]

16 hours ago, 440032 said:

A 25 registered is an aircraft conforming to the now long defunct ANO 95.25 from 1985 era. (later, CAO 95.25)

A 25 aircraft is not an LSA. - that's a whole different animal.

 

Thanks for that. Gives me some questions to ask RAAUS.

[Kenlsa]

Our club ROKO with a 912 was time expired but only 900 hours on it. Liaised with RAoz who said that we could convert to Experimental. So we did that. We put an ‘E’ before the number 24 on the rego.

 

Just ring RAoz

[APenNameAndThatA]

Like someone else said, email rather than phone, so you have it in writing, IMHO. 

[Blueadventures]

47 minutes ago, APenNameAndThatA said:

Like someone else said, email rather than phone, so you have it in writing, IMHO. 

Yep, email gives time to word a reply, plus get a written reply to a written question.  With an email in the system you can then phone up about when the answer can be expected.  Tech is busy and helpful.

[Thruster88]

I sent an email wed @ 9.52 am. Have a 7 year old low hours 582 on the t500. Not sure what I will do if the answer comes back negative. VH reg ?😂🙄😥😎 

[jackc]

Your motor won’t blow up IF you get a negative answer 🙂Just fly the freaking thing 🙂