Oz Mooney Pilot • Canberra > Albury • radio demo video

[Garfly]

Watch on YouTube for more info in the comments.

 

 

[Garfly]

And another useful one:

 

 

[turboplanner]

Are you suggesting using YouTube for IFR training and abandoning IFR rated Instructors?

 

[Garfly]

Yes, of course! So much cheaper.

 

And for those who can only afford to abandon VFR instruction (regarding YSCB procedures):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aokjw5HApsA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ-LJHb2bgk

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Garfly

[Blueadventures]

1 hour ago, Garfly said:

Yes, of course! So much cheaper.

 

And for those who can only afford to abandon VFR instruction (regarding YSCB procedures):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aokjw5HApsA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ-LJHb2bgk

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice to see they have Zulu headsets.   I am happy with my sets.  Thanks for the posts.

[Garfly]

1 hour ago, Blueadventures said:

Nice to see they have Zulu headsets.   I am happy with my sets.  Thanks for the posts.

 

Hi Mike, yeah, Oz Mooney Pilot has heaps of great in-flight videos - mostly IFR and VFR trips in and out of Canberra. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/sactu1/videos

 

I'm spending a lot of time in Canberra lately and and planning to renovate my old GA licence at a local flying school.  Among other things, I want to brush up on controlled airspace procedures.  (Who knows, that knowledge might come in handy one day, even for lowly rag 'n tubers ;- )  Anyway I'm currently devouring all the local procedural savvy I can. (As well as reminding myself of the lay-of-the-land before burning avgas - thanks to Oz Mooney.)

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Garfly

[BirdDog]

Hey Garfly

 

Thanks for the vids.  I’m based at YCTM and have just secured my CTA endorsement and will be in and out of Canberra a bit.  Already done a couple but always good too brush up. 
 

One question I have and have not been able to get it answered is what is my appropriate call sign. 
 

I’m in a Bristell 8901 and I call Bristell eighty nine zero one.  
 

Thoughts?

[Garfly]

55 minutes ago, BirdDog said:

One question I have and have not been able to get it answered is what is my appropriate call sign. 
I’m in a Bristell 8901 and I call Bristell eighty nine zero one.  
Thoughts?

 

As it happens, there are a couple of Bristells with 'phone-number' regos that regularly operate in and out of YSCB as trainers - so Canberra approach and tower will know precisely what to expect. I've noticed that the preferred RT format there for RAAus craft is the two pairs of numbers - just as you use.

  

Actually mine is 5001 but "fifty, zero-one" sounds awkward to me and, I imagine, hard to mentally process.  So (in CTAF comms, at least) I stick with "five-zero-zero-one".  I believe both are acceptable but if ATC started the transaction in one way, I'd just follow their lead.

 

[I've also heard 0000 operating in and out of Canberra. That's a challenge. "Uh-oh, Uh-oh" would be fun. Not sure what it is.]

 

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Garfly

[Flying_higher]

1 hour ago, Garfly said:

 

As it happens, there are a couple of Bristells with 'phone-number' regos that regularly operate in and out of YSCB as trainers - so Canberra approach and tower will know precisely what to expect. I've noticed that the preferred RT format there for RAAus craft is the two pairs of numbers - just as you use.

  

Actually mine is 5001 but "fifty, zero-one" sounds awkward to me and, I imagine, hard to mentally process.  So (in CTAF comms, at least) I stick with "five-zero-zero-one".  I believe both are acceptable but if ATC started the transaction in one way, I'd just follow their lead.

 

[I've also heard 0000 operating in and out of Canberra. That's a challenge. "Uh-oh, Uh-oh" would be fun. Not sure what it is.]

 

 

 

 

Take a read of AIP GEN 3.4 regarding call sign requirements, including those for RAAus. 

[Garfly]

7 hours ago, Flying_higher said:

Take a read of AIP GEN 3.4 regarding call sign requirements, including those for RAAus. 

Yes, precisely:

 

4.19 Callsigns - Full and Abbreviated Formats

4.19.1 When establishing two way communications and for subsequent communications on any frequency, Australian registered aircraft must use one of the following callsigns:

a. for VH-registered aircraft, the last 3 characters of the registration marking (e.g. VH-TQK “TANGO QUEBEC KILO”); or

b. the approved telephony designator of the aircraft operating agency, followed by the last 3 characters of a VH registration marking (e.g. “QLINK TANGO QUEBEC KILO”); or

c. the approved telephony designator of the aircraft operating agency, followed by the flight identification (e.g. “VELOCITY EIGHT FIFTY SIX DELTA”); or

d. for recreation-category aircraft, the aircraft type followed by the last 4 characters of the aircraft’s registration number (e.g. “JABIRU THIRTEEN FORTY SIX”).

 

//

 

4.14 Flight Number Callsigns - Using Group Form

 

4.14.1   Within Australian airspace, “group form” is the preferred means of transmitting callsign/flight number. Group form should also be used with military and other aircraft using a rootword callsign with numeric suffix.

4.14.2   Group form is the grouping of numbers into pairs ...  //

 

4.14.3   Pilots and ATS should be aware that the preference to use “group form” does not invalidate any transmissions made in conventional formats. However, to retain the integrity in the communication between ATS and operators, the identification format used should be consistent.

4.14.4 A pilot not using “group form” in establishing communication, but subsequently addressed by ATS in this format, should adopt the use of “group form” for the remainder of the flight in Australian airspace.

 

[KRviator]

1 hour ago, Garfly said:

d. for recreation-category aircraft, the aircraft type followed by the last 4 characters of the aircraft’s registration number (e.g. “JABIRU THIRTEEN FORTY SIX”).

 

All fun and games until BN CTR replies to your calls of "Brisbane Center, Good morning, RV Eighty-Five Nineteen" with "ARMY Eighty Five Nineteen Good morning Center?"

After the umpteenth time of that I resorted to using Romeo 85-19 as that's what they saw on TAAATS from my ADS-B squawk. Not strictly in compliance with the AIP true, but after spending several years in Army Aviation, I know they used callsigns prefixed with Army. Army 16, 24 and 26 for their Kingairs for example...

Of course, now the RV's VH- it's not a problem, but something to be aware of for other RAAus RVators out there if you want to routinely talk to ATC. 

[Garfly]

1 hour ago, KRviator said:

All fun and games until BN CTR replies to your calls of "Brisbane Center, Good morning, RV Eighty-Five Nineteen" with "ARMY Eighty Five Nineteen Good morning Center?"

After the umpteenth time of that I resorted to using Romeo 85-19 as that's what they saw on TAAATS from my ADS-B squawk. Not strictly in compliance with the AIP true, but after spending several years in Army Aviation, I know they used callsigns prefixed with Army. Army 16, 24 and 26 for their Kingairs for example...

Of course, now the RV's VH- it's not a problem, but something to be aware of for other RAAus RVators out there if you want to routinely talk to ATC. 

Yeah, it can get tricky.  If Rans S-21 Ravens become popular in Oz it'll be interesting since 'Raven' is the callsign for certain ADF helos.  (On the plus side, such a rego prefix might get you quick clearances through Amberley, among other jurisdictions  ;- )  

 

Some other Amberley ambiguities (regarding ultralight callsigns) might be:

Brumby

Cheetah

Cruiser

Hornet

Kestrel

Mustang

Vampire

 

But, to be fair, the AIP (as far as officialese permits) does address issues arising from ambiguities and basically urges common sense wherever confusion is likely. I imagine that the two-group preference applied to four-digit rego/flight numbers, is an attempt to avoid confusion with other important four number phrases such as transponder codes and QNH values.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Garfly

[sfGnome]

1 hour ago, Garfly said:

I imagine that the two-group preference applied to four-digit rego/flight numbers, is an attempt to avoid confusion with other important four number phrases such as transponder codes and QNH values.

It’s likely that they are grouped because it is easier to recall 2 numbers than 4. i.e. “twenty four, thirty nine” is easier to recall than “two, four, three, nine”. When I was learning (actually, failing to learn, but that’s another subject) French a few years ago, I was taught that they quote telephone numbers in two-groups and found that it was much easier to handle (even in English 😳). 

[BirdDog]

A few of us had a debate on the 01 part of my callsign and use "zero-one", where other suggested the, easier to say "oh-one".  Meaning the call sign would be "eighty-Nine-Oh-One"

 

I am not convinced!

[Garfly]

25 minutes ago, BirdDog said:

A few of us had a debate on the 01 part of my callsign and use "zero-one", where other suggested the, easier to say "oh-one".  Meaning the call sign would be "eighty-Nine-Oh-One"

 

I am not convinced!

 

It seems the feds, too, are less than convinced (you even get a special mention):

 

GEN 3.4 - 20          23 MAY 2019        AIP Australia

 

4.14.2  ... // Examples are as follows: QLINK 122: QLINK ONE TWENTY TWO; QANTAS 1220: QANTAS TWELVE TWENTY; CAR 21: CAR TWENTY ONE; CLASSIC 12: CLASSIC TWELVE;  VIRGIN 702: VIRGIN SEVEN ZERO TWO;  BIRDOG 021:  BIRDOG ZERO TWENTY ONE