Flight simulator program?

[Ferris]

Hello, I've been lurking out there for a few months now, just watching with interest, listening and learning, rather than throwing my two bobs worth in. Ian & Co need to be congratulated on an excellent site, and I bought much of my gear through Ian's shop, and will continue to support it. Anyway I started or should I say re-started my RA career last November and am now converting across to GA and should have that finished in the next few weeks with a bit of luck.

 

One of my neighbours is an octaganerian, and has forgotten more about flying than I could hope to learn in a dozen years. He wants to run a flight simulator program on his PC. While I'm reasonably savvy on PC's I've never been one for games and know nothing about flight simulator programs and looking for a bit of help with which program I should recommend to him. He'll be ordering a new PC in the next couple of weeks, and will order a graphics card to suit the game. Your opinion will be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers Shayne.

 

 

[Guest Flyer40]

Shayne

 

The two main contenders for serious simming are MS Flight Simulator and X-Plane.

 

The main difference between the two is that MSFS has a huge market for freeware and payware addons but lacks feel and handling realism. Whereas X-Plane is less well supported by the after-market but is better for the purist, apparently simulating the actual aerodynamics of each model.

 

The other big difference is that the latest version of MSFS, version X (10) needs a super computer to run smoothly with all the features turned on. If the budget is a bit tight, you could choose the previous version FS2004 (aka FS9) which is not that much different but runs well enough on a normally speced PC.

 

I can't comment much on X-Plane cos I've never used it, but there is a free trial version available for download if you want to test drive it.

 

The two biggest resources are http://www.flightsim.com and avsim.com

 

where you'll find heaps of info as well as thousands of free addons.

 

Mal

 

 

[shafs64]

frame rates my FS9 is about 15 to 20 higher than FS10. i have a ver good PC setup high end card Ram. chip.

 

I use payware aircraft from FSD they are very good at what they do.

 

Paul

 

 

[antzx6r]

Hey Shayne,

 

I use Flight sim x, and agree with previous post that it is very taxing on PCs. I run a core 2 duo with 3 gig ram and 8500 GT video. Still only just get 13 - 17 fps on medium high settings. I upgraded from FS 02 and am considering downgrading back to 04 (or flight sim 9) untill PC hardware becomes more affordable. The addons are great tho. You can find just about any aircraft online. I might also check out xplane at some point. Sounds impressive.

 

Off topic a bit, but how many hours did the conversion from RA to GA take (to date)? That's my next move also. You here a lot about GA to RA but not the other way around.

 

Cheers Ant.

 

 

[Matt]

Hi Ant,

 

I did the RA to GA conversion a few years back (more than a few now...would be about 6), it took about 15-20 hours in total, I had about 70 hours RA time (including X-Country endorsement).

 

I think there's been a few threads on what's involved in the conversion...if you can't find them let us know and we'll write them up again.

 

Cheers,

 

Matt.

 

 

[Admin]

I hope to be able to tell you more soon.

 

Corrine has just gone off to pick up the last component of my new dedicated Flight Sim PC. It has:

 

1 x Antec 900 Case

 

- 8" fan at the top of the case

 

- Two 120mm fans for the hard disk bays

 

- A 120mm exhaust fan at the rear

 

 

1 x Antec 850W TruePower Quattro Power Supply

 

- calculated need was 650w using everything at 100% load and allowing 35% loss over time

 

 

1 x Gigabyte GA-EX38T-DQ6

 

- This is a magnificent motherboard

 

 

1 x Intel E8500 Core 2 Duo Processor

 

 

4 x Corsair DDR3 XMS3 DHX 1333MHz 1gig Ram (4gig ram total)

 

[ATTACH]5589.vB[/ATTACH]

 

1 x XFX GeForce 9800 GX2 1.0GB DDR3 Black Edition

 

- Has 2 graphics processors

 

- Has 1gig of ram just for the graphics

 

- Completely overclocked "Black Edition"

 

 

5 x Western Digital 320Gb 7,200rpm 16Mb buffer SATA11 Dard Drives setup as RAID5

 

 

3 x Samsung 226BW 22" wide screen LCD Monitors 2ms response time, 3000:1 contrast ratio

 

- 1 for the front view including panel

 

- 1 for the left window view

 

- 1 for the passenger and right window view

 

 

1 x Matrox TripleHead2Go Digital Edition screen splitter

 

 

1 x Saitek Cyborg Evo Force Feedback Joystick

 

- adapts to either left or right hand

 

 

1 x Saitek Pro Flight Yoke System

 

- Yoke

 

- Throttle Quadrant

 

- Whiteboard on Yoke for ATC instructions

 

- Digital Timer built into the yoke

 

 

1 x Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals

 

 

1 x XFX X-Gear Gaming Rumble (vibration) Headset

 

 

1 x Saitek Eclipse 2 Keyboard

 

1 x Saitek GM3200 Laser Mouse

 

1 x Logitech Z5400 5.1 Dolby/THX Sound System

 

 

Windows Vista Ultimate

 

Flight Sim X

 

This is one mighty dedicated Flight Sim machine - could even log hours with it if I was a training facility. All the parts are here, the PC is built and now and I just have to build a dedicated desk in my office for it.

 

Also note - I have opened accounts to get all this type of equipment including new PCs at wholesale price so I will in a week or two offer new computers to all forum members at the wholesale price plus $50 for me to assemble the computer and load all the software - this is will be done through me personally and not Clear Prop so it will all be at cost.

 

 

 

[Yenn]

For your "octo geranium" friend, to get the best out of ant sim he will need pedals and stick. I have FS2004 and X=Plane 7.2 and the X-Plane is practically impossible to take off and land a tail dragger without running off the runway because I don't have pedals.

 

One good thing with X=Plane is that you can build your own plane, which I have done and the Corby flies fairly true to the real thing.

 

 

[Guest Flyer40]

Aha, a super computer. Can't wait to see what kind of frame rates you pull with that baby.

 

 

[Guest Flyer40]

For your "octo geranium" friend, to get the best out of ant sim he will need pedals and stick. I have FS2004 and X=Plane 7.2 and the X-Plane is practically impossible to take off and land a tail dragger without running off the runway because I don't have pedals.One good thing with X=Plane is that you can build your own plane, which I have done and the Corby flies fairly true to the real thing.

Yenn, leaving aside the graphics, terrain and other features, how would you compare the "in-flight" handling/fluidity of Xplane to FS9?

 

 

[shafs64]

Are you going to run this XP or vista Ian?

 

most systems will only operated with two gig of ram.

 

this has happend to me in the past.

 

Paul

 

 

[Guest Flyer40]

Good question Paul. A recent flightsim.com article spoke of the video memory shadowing the system RAM above 3Gb, so the more video memory you have the less system RAM you're left with. Or something like that. Apparently a 64 bit OS is the only solution.

 

 

[Admin]

Have you got a link to the article?

 

Is what you are saying if you have 4gig ram and 1gig video ram then you only have 3gig system ram left that is used for flight sim?

 

 

[shafs64]

Hay ian

 

I am running a 8800 GTS card when i put 4gig of ram in the pc it only showed it as 2.6 and it started to freez up alot so i went back to 2 gig this works fine now. but i would like to know how much better it would work with four gig. a friend of mine who is a tech siad that it's not a video card problem. it something to do with windows

 

i get a good frames but i have to stay away from the big city's. i still use fs9 and get great frames.

 

Paul

 

 

[Guest Flyer40]

Sorry Ian, I just checked and I was wrong about the flightsim.com article. It was actually just the starting place before I ended up at another article which explained the memory allocation thing, but I can't find it now.

 

I'll keep looking, but in the meantime this is a similar discussion;

 

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/751325.html

 

And this is also worth looking at;

 

http://www4.tomshardware.com/2008/04/09/toms_ultimate_ram_speed_tests/

 

 

[Guest Flyer40]

Have you got a link to the article?Is what you are saying if you have 4gig ram and 1gig video ram then you only have 3gig system ram left that is used for flight sim?

I finally found the article, it's actually quite a good read;

 

http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm

 

The short answer to your question according to the article is that if you run Vista in 32 bit mode, then yes, in fact you'll apparently loose a whole lot more than 1 gig, all of the time.

 

Mal

 

[url=http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm][/url]

 

 

[Ferris]

Ant, RA to GA conversion is usually around 15 hours minimum, but I believe you also need 40 hours total as well. Going this way is still a lot cheaper than launching into the deep end with GA. Back onto topic, thanks for the info, it will give me a good basis for further research. What can I say about the package that Ian has assembled. It's awesome......would probably even fly by itself.

 

Cheers

 

Shayne

 

 

[Admin]

I finally found the article, it's actually quite a good read;http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm

The short answer to your question according to the article is that if you run Vista in 32 bit mode, then yes, in fact you'll apparently loose a whole lot more than 1 gig, all of the time.

 

Mal

Thanks Mal - I have gone for Vista Ultimate 64bit to make use of all the memory - now I have a copy of the 32bit version spare - any offers ;)

 

 

[Yenn]

I think the X-Plane is the better flying sim, but my computer doesn't work too well with it, sometimes it locks up, but that is typical of this computer which was built to run flight sims among other things. I have had power problems from the mains which don't help, sometimes the electric clocks would gain 20 minutes overnight. Ergon denied responsibility but i believe they changed the phasing for 3 of us in the same area with problems and it is better.

 

I am a bit worried about computers, this one is 3 years old and has had 2 power supplies, new mother board, 2 video cards,new CPU, new fan, new heatsink, about the only thing that hasn't played up is the memory.

 

 

[Seal]

Whoa back a bit here chaps! AFAIK flight sim is a 32 bit program so a 64 bit operating system won´t do much for you at all. You have a dual channel M/B so you can run it as 2Gb dual channel which will give you top performance whilst staying within the 32 bit address space.

 

The video ram sharing issue depends on the system. Video ram sharing is generally a low end and laptop issue. With this combination you won´t have the video card sharing the system RAM.

 

With a setup like that who needs an aeroplane. :big_grin:

 

 

[Admin]

Ok, now you've got me - as I now have both versions of Vista 32bit and 64bit which one should I use - all drivers I need have 64bit versions so no problem there - it is rumoured that FS11 will be 64bit only.

 

 

[Guest Flyer40]

Google it Ian, there's a bit of discussion around about FSX running in 64 bit mode.

 

 

[Seal]

I agree, if you have a program that needs or can use 64 bit then go for that. OTOH, 64 bit OS won´t do anything for a 32 bit program. Drivers can be a problem with 64 bit OS but if you have all those that you need then you should be right.

 

 

[spacesage]

Ian,

 

Thats one hell of a system, Youll have some with that, no doubt. Now for the downloads. Grabbing all of the Terrain Mesh and updated packs for FSx and FS9.

 

I suggest completely building your machine from scratch and then maybe conducting a "Ghost" of your setup. This creates a snapshot image of your PCs setup and allows for a quick rebuild in case of major failure. As long as you hardware etc stay the same (hard drives exepted) you should have a quick way of rebuilding back to the atste you like it.

 

If you dont have this software, see your local PC store the should be able to help by either doing it for you, or teeling you where to get the software from.

 

 

[spacesage]

 

Should look sonething like this when completed Ian?

 

 

[Admin]

- I wish although a bit hard to simulate a Thruster with that panel.

 

I have used Nortons Ghost in the past so I may look into that again.

 

I fired it up last night and found I had a faulty graphics card so I have to wait to get a replacement. I put my XFX 7900GTX card in and it booted up to adjust the bios settings so I came to the conclusion it was the new card that was faulty.

 

Just wondering whether I could install windows and all the updates but just not the graphics drivers to get a head start - I just want to keep it completely clean. It is very hard to take ALL the nVidia stuff off again as the nVidia uninstall doesn't remove everything.

 

My research so far has indicated to me that there is a lot of comments out there about windows 32 vs 64, problems with 64 etc but all these seem to be written earlier in the piece before the service packs were released. But what I can gather so far is:

 

Windows 32bit versus 64bit

 

- As long as you have all the updates there is no difference

 

- 64bit will make use of all the ram that you have whereas 32bit is limited to about 3.5gig

 

- FS11 the next version of FS may possibly only be 64bit

 

- All the drivers that I need have 64bit options

 

Single, Duo or Quad Core Processors

 

- FSX will use all available cores but will not spread the load across all channels but rather use one channel until it is full and then go to the next channel and so on

 

- Addons may end up using the other channels of the processor

 

DDR2 Vs DDR3*

 

- The price of DDR3 has come down considerable and is not much dearer then DDR2

 

- DDR3 will give you faster speeds

 

- DDR3 is the future

 

X48 Chipset Motherboard*

 

- This is very new and not all the bugs have been ironed out yet

 

- This chipset being new will be around for a few years

 

* It was suggested to me to take the DDR3 Ram and the X48 Chipset Motherboard back and get a good DDR2 Motherboard and Ram as I will be able to overclock the ram and Processor but I won't be able to overclock the DDR3 Ram and the E8500 Processor. Specifically it was said:

 

PC2 6400 will allow you to overclock that E8500 to 3.8 Ghz, before you even start to overclock the RAM, and since DDR2 has been around for awhile, almost all of it overclocks quite nicely. My cheap 2x2 GB sticks of 400 Mhz/800 DDR2: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231122 will do 970 DDR, without raising the timings any, and with only a .1v bump of vdimm.

 

Now I don't know why I would not be able to overclock the DDR3 and the E8500 as in my setup, I should be able to - any comments on this?

 

The end result I want is to have all settings maxed out, get the best graphics for realism and at the busiest airports with AI set at say 90% to get an absolute minimum 25fps in full screen VC (the eye can not see over 25 frames per second).

 

Comments as always are most welcomed!