Small plane missing Victoria 18/09/22

[kgwilson]

That was quick. Absent for 24 hours & it's now a motorbike forum.

[BrendAn]

6 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

That was quick. Absent for 24 hours & it's now a motorbike forum.

I was wondering how long before that came up. I did say the Honda motor would be a good aircraft engine😁

[jackc]

3 hours ago, Litespeed said:

Wow, a HP 2 dirt squirt.

 

A hyperbike for the road/dirt.

 

Amazing machine and peerless.

 

Pity you sold it.

I would not be alive IF I kept it, way past my capability now…..World’s fastest road registerable  enduro machine of its day. I also bought the Super Motard Wheel set for it, too.

Top speed capability? I won’t mention 🤩

 

https://youtu.be/hvVMX-QfvTY?si=J66Oi33j4egx4wxp

[jackc]

It’s often said that you start small and work up…..Worlds only bike you can double its top speed with factory parts, been there done that.

 

[jackc]

32 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

That was quick. Absent for 24 hours & it's now a motorbike forum.

Well, the HP2 motor would go well in an aircraft, 1200 GS motor, with no balance shaft, some good race bits and factory blue printed and dyno’ed. Torque? Heaps 🤩

 

[BrendAn]

6 minutes ago, jackc said:

Well, the HP2 motor would go well in an aircraft, 1200 GS motor, with no balance shaft, some good race bits and factory blue printed and dyno’ed. Torque? Heaps 🤩

 

You can buy a kit to fit a BMW r100 to an xair. There are 9 flying in the UK ATM and going very well.

[Thruster88]

In perfect VFR conditions with no mountains within a couple of hundred miles I once flew a Thruster T500 powered by a BMW 800 boxer coupled to a rotax C gearbox. Similar performance to a 582.

[spenaroo]

fair enough, with moving the motorcycle talk off this thread

 

I have resurrected the bike thread

 

https://www.socialaustralia.com.au/topic/1202-the-bike-shed/page/4/

[FlyingVizsla]

ABC report on Coroner's Inquest

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-14/coronial-inquest-mathew-farrell-pilot-death-mount-beauty/104931548

[FlyingVizsla]

The Recommendations:

 

- CASA amend its Flight Operations Manual to clarify the aeronautical experience that constituted "recognised flight time" according to each type of aircraft, and to clarify the experience required for licence endorsements.

- CASA amend its manual to redefine what it considered an aeroplane.

- The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) should investigate all fatal accidents with RAAus-registered aircraft, rather than RAAus.

- RAAus develop standardised training records for flight instructors that allowed for detailed auditing of training in a form approved by CASA that must be used by flight instructors in all instances.

[facthunter]

I think HE posted here a few times. RAAus doesn't Investigate RAAus planes. The relevant STATE police do.   Nev

[Blueadventures]

We had similar up this way where a GA aircraft hit the hills in poor weather, pilot didn't complete his training to solo level but chose to fly, Both he and his wife were killed unfortunately.  In this one an instructor signed him off and the pilot involved decided to fly the route.  

My very limited information on this is along the lines that he achieved solo and was granted x/c at some time and the instructor is not with us to explain his reasoning.  Seems x/c at least was not supported with his RAA flight times.

When I gained my certificate same person at RAA advised my gliding XC was not able to be transferred or recognised so had to jump all the hoops.

Thier are a small number of poor performance decisions identified by RAAus, one example is bfr done with instructor being separated by 400 or so kms at the time, over phone deal and there would be a few more I'd guess.

My belief is don't blame RAAus 100% and there is learnings from this.

[BurnieM]

Lots of f/ups all round.

RAAus

Flight Instructor

Can the pilot take some blame for pushing for his condensed training ? And poor trip planning ?

A bit disappointing for his partner to sue when she appears to have known his training was not up to scratch but took no action prior to his death.

 

Please do not tell me how hard it was/is on her.

These sort of f/ups create more regulations and costs for all of us.

 

[Litespeed]

Yep lots of holes made and they lined up, sadly.

 

As for the wife, I can see her perspective, her husband has been trained and certified to fly by the current system, whether good or bad . She had concerns that have been borne out, what power would she have had to deny her husband who the trainer had ok'd , not to fly?

 

 

The system completely failed her as a spouse, yes personal responsibility is paramount but it relies on the training and regulation of the sector aka proper governance. 

 

I think the potential of a law suit has driven the process to ensure the whole story is explored. Sometimes you have to sue to ensure you get the truth in open court, any compensation awarded is a minor consideration. To sue can absolutely bankrupt a person, I am sure she felt it was justified in her hope for recognition of what happened and the lessons to draw from it. 

 

It would appear from the Coroner's findings that not only was very limited training provided and pilots cert granted, but RAAus  deliberately obstructed the Coroners investigation into the fatal of the pilot with less than ten hours flight time.

 

I would think the wife has every right to pursue this in any legal means she has. 

 

Think from her perspective, hubby gets all of 4 flights,9.5hrs total, so  long ones, a max of 4 days and all compressed with ground school. It could have been shorter?

 

Husband comes home with pilot certificate, wife not sure. Next Hubby is dead, was it just him or was he undertrained and in a position that he was completely unprepared for?

 

We talk about human factors in incidents/accidents and the greatest overall determinate is the mindset of the pilot and his/her ability to know their abilities and not allow ego/excitement/sensory overload to take over. But if you don't get the training, it's like throwing a fledgling out of the nest..

 

 

If it wasn't for this case would anything change?

[turboplanner]

Maurice Blackburn are Public Liability lawyers, so I would expect a PL civil case to follow the Coroner's finding. That's the usual process.

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, Litespeed said:

Yep lots of holes made and they lined up, sadly.

 

As for the wife, I can see her perspective, her husband has been trained and certified to fly by the current system, whether good or bad . She had concerns that have been borne out, what power would she have had to deny her husband who the trainer had ok'd , not to fly?

 

 

The system completely failed her as a spouse, yes personal responsibility is paramount but it relies on the training and regulation of the sector aka proper governance. 

 

I think the potential of a law suit has driven the process to ensure the whole story is explored. Sometimes you have to sue to ensure you get the truth in open court, any compensation awarded is a minor consideration. To sue can absolutely bankrupt a person, I am sure she felt it was justified in her hope for recognition of what happened and the lessons to draw from it. 

 

It would appear from the Coroner's findings that not only was very limited training provided and pilots cert granted, but RAAus  deliberately obstructed the Coroners investigation into the fatal of the pilot with less than ten hours flight time.

 

I would think the wife has every right to pursue this in any legal means she has. 

 

Think from her perspective, hubby gets all of 4 flights,9.5hrs total, so  long ones, a max of 4 days and all compressed with ground school. It could have been shorter?

 

Husband comes home with pilot certificate, wife not sure. Next Hubby is dead, was it just him or was he undertrained and in a position that he was completely unprepared for?

 

We talk about human factors in incidents/accidents and the greatest overall determinate is the mindset of the pilot and his/her ability to know their abilities and not allow ego/excitement/sensory overload to take over. But if you don't get the training, it's like throwing a fledgling out of the nest..

 

 

If it wasn't for this case would anything change?

It was his girlfriend not wife 

Edited February 14 by BrendAn

[jackc]

Threre is a whole heap of other things Shareholders should know, behind the scenes, like, I would allege some $400,0000 in legal fees, to date.  AND the possible departure of the President, to CASA? 

[onetrack]

Mat's small number of posts on here indicated a reasonably good understanding about the limitations involved in flying light aircraft, but it appears he succumbed to the age-old problem of poor pilot decision-making, in taking off into inclement weather, obviously feeling a pressing need to carry out his flight.

I would opine we've all seen reports of reportedly good pilots with modest levels of experience, making poor decisions to take off, when they should've stayed grounded.

I'm not so sure that another 15 or 20 hrs of pilot training would have benefited Mat, unless that training really hammered decision-making, relating to whether a flight would be able to be safely carried out or not.

The problem centres around the fact that everyone is different when it comes to decision-making, and some of us are more impulsive than others.

 

https://www.recreationalflying.com/profile/11812-mat-farrell/content/

[BurnieM]

7 minutes ago, onetrack said:

...

I'm not so sure that another 15 or 20 hrs of pilot training would have benefited Mat, unless that training really hammered decision-making, relating to whether a flight would be able to be safely carried out or not.

...

 

As I commented in the other thread; Isn't that what the cross country endorsement is all about ?

 

Edited February 15 by BurnieM

[sfGnome]

It’s the old luck versus experience thing. I did good cross-country training, including real situations turning back when the weather was deteriorating. However, it still took a bit of get-there-itis on my part long after I had my certificate to teach me that it really isn’t worth the risk. I flew into worsening weather, and was lucky to turn it around without hitting the ground. Never again!
 

That was the real learning experience, when you’re up there alone and suffering the results of your decisions. I’ll bet you that he was thinking the same things that I was; maybe I was lucky, maybe my extra experience to that date made me turn back just a fraction soon enough? Who knows, but one thing’s for certain. There are many things that might kill me, but flying into bad weather ain’t gunna be one of them (any more). 

[facthunter]

Fog can form very quickly and you can get hail in clear air. Learn as much as you can about weather. I found the best info was from Glider related data much of which was Northern hemisphere based, but you can adjust that if the take the appropriate factors into account..   Nev. 

[Methusala]

I've seldom seen so many column inches wasted by people wishing to blame the system. This is so obviously a case of an individual making the wrong decision. Regulators, instructors, qualified bystanders and family and friends cannot be blamed for the rash decisions of the victim of poor decisions. Coroners will often try to scapegoat by looking for 'system failings'. 

Recreational flying has and will always be potentially dangerous and, in common with all risk activities, will punish poor choices. Blaming instructors, regulators or regulations is a trap. The attraction of recreational flying is that it assigns the risk to the pilot. The obvious lesson here is to carry in mind, at all times, the knowledge that this thing can kill me.

[Love to fly]

23 minutes ago, Methusala said:

This is so obviously a case of an individual making the wrong decision. 

Except you don't know what you don't know. So why was the wrong decision made becomes the question. And 4 flights and under 10 hours of instruction doesn't set anyone up for good decision making re wx and x country flights. Add in the behaviour of some and the Coroner's referrals to the DPP and this becomes something that may effect all of us. 

 

And please, never firget a life was losr and many impacted by this crash. 

Edited February 15 by Love to fly

[BrendAn]

3 minutes ago, Love to fly said:

Except you don't know what you don't know. So why was the wrong decision made becomes the question. And 4 flights and under 10 hours of instruction doesn't set anyone up for good decision making re wx and x country flights. Add in the behaviour of some and the Coroner's referrals to the DPP and this becomes something that may effect all of us. 

 

And please, never firget a life was losr and many impacted by this crash. 

Absolute rubbish.  If you take off when everyone else is staying on the ground because the weather was bad at the point of origin it means you made a bad decision. 

You don't need hours of training to know if conditions are bad. People need to take responsibility for their actions. Always looking to blame someone else these days.   If the pilot was still around he might agree he made a bad decision.

[Blueadventures]

Would be good to know how many touch and goes he did under instruction and the weather as that would have displayed his ability to the instructor pre first solo.

 

Also; his flying experience in other types and xc experience in them.

 

I haven't read that detail anywhere.