Small plane missing Victoria 18/09/22

[Roundsounds]

6 hours ago, jackc said:

 ¡CEO told me last week, they will get around to it shortly.  
Snow jobbing a Coroner does not go well, when the relevant people get caught.

Get around to it shortly? It’s not like they didn’t know the outcome, should’ve had something out to members the day the report was released. Says a lot about the culture of the place.

[FlyBoy1960]

perhaps, if they leave it long enough, they think we will have forgotten and the can sweep everything under the rug

[facthunter]

Bit judgemental . They can't say much when being threatened with Prosecution. Nev

[jackc]

27 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Bit judgemental . They can't say much when being threatened with Prosecution. Nev

All they need to do is notify basically that circumstances are pending until final determination is made.  
No legal discussion can be made, under the circumstances.

But to simply say nothing at all, is an insult to the members, shareholder, stakeholders of the organisation.

[facthunter]

Not a realistic assumption They no doubt would be acting under Legal Advice.  Nev

[Roundsounds]

54 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Bit judgemental . They can't say much when being threatened with Prosecution. Nev

Just an acknowledgement would be ok

[kgwilson]

No matter what, given the demeanour of the pilot in this case a major issue was almost certain in a reasonably short time. The crash and fatality happened and it was the fault of the pilot.

 

The learnings that come out of this have been made glaringly obvious by the Coroner. How anyone in RA-Aus thought that flying hours in a foot launched, non rigid, unpowered, flexible paraglider could possibly be counted as flight experience towards a RA-Aus pilot certificate displays either arrogance or a totally inadequate understanding of what prior knowledge and experience is. Then to defend the actions and cover everything up from the Operations Manager to top management and Board of Directors shows these factors in an even worse light along with a complete misunderstanding of the thorough nature of a Coronial inquest.

 

The fact that Neil Schaefer was the only one who railed against this and that he was shut up is even more disturbing. Those involved should be prosecuted and relieved of their roles in a very public way. I hope this happens.

[facthunter]

The Coroner gets involved when a fatality happens His/her job is to determine the Cause of death. The Weather conditions were the cause of death. WHO decided to FLY that day.? The Pilot.  No amount of training in any of the RAAus array of aircraft would have been of any benefit that day.  He was considered an exceptionally adept pilot and stayed in the air longer than most who haven't flown IFR. Its Likely the ICE was the final straw..  Nev

[turboplanner]

30 minutes ago, facthunter said:

The Coroner gets involved when a fatality happens His/her job is to determine the Cause of death. The Weather conditions were the cause of death. WHO decided to FLY that day.? The Pilot.  No amount of training in any of the RAAus array of aircraft would have been of any benefit that day.  He was considered an exceptionally adept pilot and stayed in the air longer than most who haven't flown IFR. Its Likely the ICE was the final straw..  Nev

The Coroner has already released his report.

[facthunter]

Are you disputing anything I have said. .  My "information" is from the report.  Nev

[onetrack]

Quote

 He was considered an exceptionally adept pilot and stayed in the air longer than most who haven't flown IFR

He might have been an exceptionally adept pilot, but his personality traits of continued arrogant risk taking, deemed him an exceptionally bad risk for him to be issued a pilots licence/certificate.

It's just fortunate that he only killed himself, and not others as well. It's telling that even his girlfriend wouldn't get in the Jabiru with him. 

People with these type of personality flaws are on a path to a short and spectacular life. Their self-preservation skills are way behind their "pushing the boundaries" aims.

[FlyBoy1960]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

Are you disputing anything I have said. .  My "information" is from the report.  Nev

I am disputing what you have said, because the coroner didn't once mention icing. That was your interpretation of the events, and not a fact from the coroner's report.

 

I do agree with you, that icing was a likely possibility, and at least one of the reasons that this flight ended in a fatality. But the very first reason was the pilot not having the skills to decide that the weather was not suitable on that day for his level of training and the equipment in the aircraft.

 

There is no other consideration that needs to be made other than a pilot making very poor decisions from the moment he taxied. 

 

I keep coming back to the statement in the coroner's report that even the guys wife/de facto wouldn't even fly with him. You don't need any more red flags than this statement on its own.

Edited Saturday at 02:51 AM by FlyBoy1960

[facthunter]

The information from the report enabled determination of the freezing level and I also have experience of severe Icing in That area  something I doubt anyone interviewed would have had.  Nev

[BrendAn]

Every time there is a fatal raaus send us members an email to let us know. So why hold back on sending us an email about the court troubles.

I don't believe lawyers could stop them, we own raaus . These people work for us.

 

[facthunter]

Of course they would get and take lawyer advice. Thats where this thing has gotten to. You have to prepare for the worst or you are a dill when you are in a managing role.. Your last line doesn't reflect the world we are  ACTUALLY IN.  Nev

[BrendAn]

13 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Of course they would get and take lawyer advice. Thats where this thing has gotten to. You have to prepare for the worst or you are a dill when you are in a managing role.. Your last line doesn't reflect the world we are  ACTUALLY IN.  Nev

Don't you agree that the members own the company. I would have thought we did. There is no raaus without us. There is no other reason for it to exist.

[facthunter]

 No you don't OWN the Company. Thankfully. Subscriptions do keep it in business. Same as buying a subscription to National Geographic Nev

[BrendAn]

Ok. So why do we have to vote the board members in.

[jackc]

28 minutes ago, facthunter said:

 No you don't OWN the Company. Thankfully. Subscriptions do keep it in business. Same as buying a subscription to National Geographic Nev

 But we get no choices, don’t join and you don’t fly aircraft in this Aviation sector.  If I had my choice I would not be in it at all,  because my experiences have not  been convivial with RAA.

The way I feel right now, is do what i did in South Africa 15 years ago, bought a BMW1200GS Bike, stored it there, flew over every year for 6 years, traveled around for 4-6 weeks, put in storage come home, rinse and repeat🤩

Right now I would go to the U.S. buy an FAA FAR Part 103 plane, store it there and visit twice a year, visit Air Venture etc, fly the  wings off it. NO RAA, NO licence, NO bullsh1t, 

Rinse and repeat, until I die

, spending the inheritance. 🤩 

I don’t really need RAA, as can go VH rego, class 5 medical, with SAAA and fly away, happy days 👍👍 

[facthunter]

CASA just want rid of it.  RAAus cannot well represent your Interests as I has to keep onside with the CASA.  Nev

[BurnieM]

But do they ?

10,000 ga pilots to manage on what they say is an already limited budget.

[spacesailor]

I agree with ,

jackc .

Is there another closer country to fly ' FAR part 103 ' in , than the USofA .

There's lots of pacific islands to choose from , should make a ' new adventure theme ' .

spacesailor

 

 

Edited Saturday at 07:22 AM by spacesailor
AI changed word :theme to team

[facthunter]

Not comparable.  GA is ICAO Compliant and CASA gets revenue from Aviation  fuel sales.  Relatively easy to  manage whereas  RAAus etc rely on a lot of dispensations to operate. That's NOT popular with the AUTHORITY and is the main reason about  Problems with CTA access. Whether this SHOW continues or not rests with the CASA. They won't come right out and say it up front, so not having much clout and much public sympathy being realistic you are between a rock and a Hard place. For Now I'd say Back the RAAus. It's all you have except GA. I'd hate to be working for them. You can't win. They made a mistake in trying to be the "NEW GA", but maybe they felt that was the only way to go to survive in the longer term..Nev

[BrendAn]

I wish we could have an organisation to look after sub 80 knot ultralights.

We get nothing from raaus, have to pay the same as everyone else to fly around paddocks In rag and tube. Membership should be cheaper than the new flash aircraft flying in busy areas. Too much to hope for I know.

[turboplanner]

14 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Not comparable.  GA is ICAO Compliant and CASA gets revenue from Aviation  fuel sales.  Relatively easy to  manage whereas  RAAus etc rely on a lot of dispensations to operate. That's NOT popular with the AUTHORITY and is the main reason about  Problems with CTA access. Whether this SHOW continues or not rests with the CASA. They won't come right out and say it up front, so not having much clout and much public sympathy being realistic you are between a rock and a Hard place. For Now I'd say Back the RAAus. It's all you have except GA. I'd hate to be working for them. You can't win. They made a mistake in trying to be the "NEW GA", but maybe they felt that was the only way to go to survive in the longer term..Nev

 

A lot of fairy stories there.

 

CASA already has six SASAOs;no reason why a group couldn't set up an  Incorporated Association the same as RAA Inc. with a similar structure and large scale activities like Natfly, and State or region based Committee Members, Aircraft Examiners, Maintenace Examiners etc. just like the others.

 

For years now there has been leakage from RAA to HGFA/SAFA; no reason why they couldn't expand more if they wanted to.

 

 

Sport Aviation Self-Administering Organisations.  (SASAO)                                                   

	SASAO	Oversees
1	Australian Parachute Federation	Parachuting regulations
2	Australian Sport Rotorcraft Association	Gyroplanes
3	Australian Warbirds Association Limited	Airworthiness of Limited Category aircraft, Adventure Flight Operators
4	Gliding Federation of Australia	Gliding
5	Recreational Aviation Australia Limited	Ultralights, Recreational, Weight Shift Microlights, Light Sport Aircraft, Power Parachutes
6	Sports Aviation Federation of Australia	Hang Gliding, Paragliding, Weight Shift Microlights, Power Parachutes (Previously HGFA)