Double fatal crash W.A. wheatbelt involving Robinson R22 helicopter - 2nd Oct, 2022

[RFguy]

They are NOT dangerous on takeoff.  that assertion is complete crap. 

 

you only crash if you don't lower the nose . if you do have engine trouble  on initial climb, you are going to land 'immediately' .

 

So- wise flying requires that you have somewhere to go if you have engine trouble

 

And that goes for whether you have been in the air for 2 seconds or 2000 seconds.

 

If you have the climb rate high and marginal airspeed before the trouble and are close to the ground   then you are going to have to point the nose steeply down to get enough airspeed energy for the flare. That might be scary but it has to be done... A critical maneuver for sure   A lower climb rate and more airspeed would reduce the criticality of making this maneuver, either way, you are going to decay fast. 

8 hours ago, Teckair said:

It was common knowledge that 503 Thusters were dangerous on take off. Are you calling me a liar ?

 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by RFguy

[Methusala]

On 07/10/2022 at 8:18 PM, Teckair said:

Any aircraft is dangerous if mis-handled. I'm adding my experience as a Thruster pilot over 30 yrs. All in my logbook.

 

[RFguy]

Don, do you have anything to add to my comment about  a  high climb rate, marginal airspeed  departure   versus  lower climb rates+ higher airspeed with margin  comment  for this particular airframe  (503 T)?

 

certainly with marginal airspeed, high climb rate, u are going to have to point the nose down steeply and the flare is going to be exciting , there will be no time to look at the ASI....

all judgement !

would seem higher airspeed margin, lower climb rate is diligent for low inertia , high drag aircraft

Edited October 8, 2022 by RFguy

[Methusala]

Glen, my comment was wrongly attributed to Teckair. Your comment is correct, very well expressed. Don

[Teckair]

I had well over 1000 hours of instructing in ultralights. Over 300 was in Thrusters, Gemini, TST, T300, T500, but apparently I don't know what I am talking about. I was part of the solution in solving the Gemini nodding problem but once again I don't know what I talking about. AUF personal and the then Thruster factory at the time knew of the dangers of EFOTF with a 503 fully loaded Thruster. I think I have been reminded why it is a waste of time posting on these forums. 

[RFguy]

Tekair said : " I think I have been reminded why it is a waste of time posting on these forums. "

 

maybe it has something to do with your style of writing....

 

example:  "It was common knowledge that 503 Thusters were dangerous on take off. Are you calling me a liar ?"

 

You could be of benefit to the community with a reflection  on your style of writing, which currently isnt conducive to people taking any notice of you.... Take some time to think about what and why  you are trying to communicate, then how.

Edited October 8, 2022 by RFguy

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, Teckair said:

I had well over 1000 hours of instructing in ultralights. Over 300 was in Thrusters, Gemini, TST, T300, T500, but apparently I don't know what I am talking about. I was part of the solution in solving the Gemini nodding problem but once again I don't know what I talking about. AUF personal and the then Thruster factory at the time knew of the dangers of EFOTF with a 503 fully loaded Thruster. I think I have been reminded why it is a waste of time posting on these forums. 

Well Richard, what are you talking about?

That's not a sarcastic question; I accept your experience on type, but you are up against several sim flyers who can save their aircraft every time, some academics who work the numbers backwards, and most commentators who have time on heavier and more stable Jabirus compared to the LSA55 and in the past few years a bunch of GA pilots who don't realise the difference in handling compared to their high-inertia aircraft. Better to get it righth than let them kill someone with bad information where they "won" their argument. I decided to stop commenting a few years ago, and the person I decided not to comment on died a week later low flying - such a simple bad move, but not according to the other posters at the time who were enthralled at the excitement.

[Garfly]

17 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Well Richard, what are you talking about?

That's not a sarcastic question; I accept your experience on type, but you are up against several sim flyers who can save their aircraft every time, some academics who work the numbers backwards, and most commentators who have time on heavier and more stable Jabirus compared to the LSA55 and in the past few years a bunch of GA pilots who don't realise the difference in handling compared to their high-inertia aircraft. Better to get it righth than let them kill someone with bad information where they "won" their argument. I decided to stop commenting a few years ago, and the person I decided not to comment on died a week later low flying - such a simple bad move, but not according to the other posters at the time who were enthralled at the excitement.

Oh, aye ... "All the world is queer save thee and me, and even thou art a little queer." 

[turboplanner]

15 minutes ago, Garfly said:

Oh, aye ... "All the world is queer save thee and me, and even thou art a little queer." 

Richard is worthwhile reading, if he decides to post.

[Garfly]

3 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Richard is worthwhile reading, if he decides to post.

Few, if any, doubt it.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Garfly

[johnm]

it is better to have loved and lost - than never have loved at all

[Teckair]

In about 1989 I was at the Donnington air park. I went for a flight with a guy in a 503 Thruster. He was climbing out at 45 kts. I told him if the motor failed he would crash. He said some times he climbed at 40 kts and he had to do that to get it to climb. I got out of that plane and another passenger got in. During the take off there was a partial engine failure it went from full power to 4000 rpm. This resulted in a crash the pilot was not a old person who had just been warned about the risk. In about 1993 a person I had been instructing in my Thruster at Childers went and bought the Donnington crash Thruster. He went flying with a Bundaberg instructor who I don't think had experience with Thrusters. This instructor pulled the power on take off which resulted in another crash. They couldn't recover even though the motor was still running. 

[facthunter]

There's a  Height /airspeed envelope where  you will not be able to flare the plane if the motor quits. Overspeeding the climb will help managing it if there is room for it. Loose sails degrades thruster's performance. When they were new they flew better. It's NOT a high lift wing and the plane is draggy. Even in a near vertical dive it won't go fast. There's no need to side slip these aircraft. Nev