Where to rent a hangar?

[Shu_downunder]

I've just started training and been dreaming to own a 4-6 seats light airplane, hopefully in the near future. 

Can anyone give me some idea where should I look for source for hangars?

 

I live in North-east of Melbourne, between ESSENDON and Lilydale. 

 

[cscotthendry]

Pick someplace close to your home. The closer it is, the more flying you'll be able to do. Then go to that airfield and visit and even join the flying club. Go hang out there on weekends and start to get to know the members and get yourself known. Talk to airplane owners and prowl the hangars and ask around. Something will pop up.
This is how I get hangarage and it has worked several times.
Ummm, I just te-read your post. Are you looking for someone who can construct a hangar for you? Edited October 8, 2022 by cscotthendry

[Shu_downunder]

 

3 hours ago, cscotthendry said:

Ummm, I just te-read your post. Are you looking for someone who can construct a hangar for you?

Thanks scott for the advice.

 

I can probably build a hangar myself as I'm a builder. But I simply don't have a clue where to start. My questions are actually more 'entry-level':

 

- Are the potential hangars only located in or immediately around airports and runways?

- If there are other available places, where could they be? Someone's farm?

- If it's somewhere off the runway, does it mean I need to source an airplane with removable wings for transportation?

Edited October 9, 2022 by Shu_downunder

[rgmwa]

Usually, yes and not necessarily. If you really need a 4-6 seat aircraft it won’t have easily removable wings anyway. Best thing would be to visit local airfields and talk to hangar owners. You are at the start of a long journey if you have only just started lessons and your plans and ideas will change over time.

[cscotthendry]

3 hours ago, Shu_downunder said:

 

Thanks scott for the advice.

 

I can probably build a hangar myself as I'm a builder. But I simply don't have a clue where to start. My questions are actually more 'entry-level':

 

- Are the potential hangars only located in or immediately around airports and runways?

- If there are other available places, where could they be? Someone's farm?

- If it's somewhere off the runway, does it mean I need to source an airplane with removable wings for transportation?

Yes, hangars are generally near a runway, whether it's at an airport or on someone's farm and for the reasons you mentioned (transporting and removing wings etc)

Generally removing flying surfaces for storage or transport is not a great option. It introduces lots of potential for missing something vital and having a really bad flying day when a wing folds or comes off, or a control surface ceases to function. Also, it adds a significant amount of overhead time to your actual flying hours. I used to own a trike which I used to transport on a trailer to other airfields. The setup/packup becomes a real PITA after a few goes.

Also, aircraft REALLY don't like being transported by road. They are very lightly constructed and not designed for extended travel, particularly on Oz's crappy road system. The bumps and shakes bend things and loosen things and it's generally not a great solution.

As others have said, if you're looking for a 4-6 place plane, you definitely won't be taking the wings off that unless you have a LAME license or similar.

Also about that 4-6 seats. You probably find that unless you have an IFR license and a very well fitted out IFR aircraft, you probably do mostly recreational flying, which usually means yourself and probably one other person. If you're paying the maintenance and fuel bills to carry 4 empty seats for most flights, flying gets expensive real quick.

Back to the hangar situation, I stick with my suggestions as they've worked well for me. But if your situation is such that there's not an airport near you, then someone's farm might be the solution. The potential downside is you're subject to how well the farmer maintains the runway(s) and if they run cattle or other animals on it, it can get a bit complicated.

In all things flying “Simplicate and add lightness.”: R. Kelly Johnson, designer of the U2 and the SR71.

[Shu_downunder]

21 hours ago, rgmwa said:

Usually, yes and not necessarily. If you really need a 4-6 seat aircraft it won’t have easily removable wings anyway. Best thing would be to visit local airfields and talk to hangar owners. You are at the start of a long journey if you have only just started lessons and your plans and ideas will change over time.

Yes, my plan changed a few times already just during reading Mike Busch's Airplane Ownership.

The idea of searching a hangar comes from that book as well.

Don't you think it's necessary?

[rgmwa]

5 minutes ago, Shu_downunder said:

Yes, my plan changed a few times already just during reading Mike Busch's Airplane Ownership.

The idea of searching a hangar comes from that book as well.

Don't you think it's necessary?

If you have a plane you will need to keep it somewhere so doing some research on the hangar options available in your area makes sense. Visiting the local airfields and talking to hangar owners would be a good way to find out about costs and availabily. Someone will probably also know about any local private strips that may offer possibilities.

[Shu_downunder]

19 hours ago, cscotthendry said:

Yes, hangars are generally near a runway, whether it's at an airport or on someone's farm and for the reasons you mentioned (transporting and removing wings etc)

Generally removing flying surfaces for storage or transport is not a great option. It introduces lots of potential for missing something vital and having a really bad flying day when a wing folds or comes off, or a control surface ceases to function. Also, it adds a significant amount of overhead time to your actual flying hours. I used to own a trike which I used to transport on a trailer to other airfields. The setup/packup becomes a real PITA after a few goes.

Also, aircraft REALLY don't like being transported by road. They are very lightly constructed and not designed for extended travel, particularly on Oz's crappy road system. The bumps and shakes bend things and loosen things and it's generally not a great solution.

As others have said, if you're looking for a 4-6 place plane, you definitely won't be taking the wings off that unless you have a LAME license or similar.

Also about that 4-6 seats. You probably find that unless you have an IFR license and a very well fitted out IFR aircraft, you probably do mostly recreational flying, which usually means yourself and probably one other person. If you're paying the maintenance and fuel bills to carry 4 empty seats for most flights, flying gets expensive real quick.

Back to the hangar situation, I stick with my suggestions as they've worked well for me. But if your situation is such that there's not an airport near you, then someone's farm might be the solution. The potential downside is you're subject to how well the farmer maintains the runway(s) and if they run cattle or other animals on it, it can get a bit complicated.

In all things flying “Simplicate and add lightness.”: R. Kelly Johnson, designer of the U2 and the SR71.

I will go searching as per your suggesting instead of rely on online information only.

I will give up the ideal of storing the plane remotely from home airfield/runway.

 

Regards to 4-6 seats, which is the better approach providing I will eventually need a 4-6 seats soon, or, in 4-5 years for family? I can't wait too long before my kids are too old to be willing to hang around with me. lol.

 

1. Start with a 2-seat for a couple of years and change to a larger one after I'm confident to take families for travel.

 

2. Have a long term 4-6 seats from the beginning, spend time to do get familiar with it, upgrade the avionics and do maintenance allowed as owner. 

 

I understand the learning curve / cost might be easier to take for approach 1. But I guess the time spent on learning and get familiar with at least two aircrafts in just a few years, and money spent on upgrading each of them would offset the easier starting point.

 

Any suggestions please?

Edited October 10, 2022 by Shu_downunder

[rgmwa]

Upgrading is usually very expensive, particularly if you need to have it done professionally, which will be necessary as the work (maintenance and upgrades) you can do yourself as the owner of a commercial aircraft (Cessna, Piper, etc) is extremely limited. One option might be to buy a two seater and consider building your own 4 seater over 4-5 years like a Vans RV-10 (expect to pay $250-$300K however). Alternatively, buy a two seater and just hire a larger aircraft if/when you need it - which will probably be far less often that you may be thinking now. Very few private pilots own a six seater.  You may also be able to buy into a syndicate that owns a larger aircraft. There are plenty options, but  none of them will be cheap. Probably the least expensive option would be to own a two-seat experimental aircraft like a Jabiru or Vans and hire a larger plane when you need it.

[MattP]

Shu

 

Any aviation purchase for recreational pilots tends to be an emotional buy, so no matter what advice anyone gives you, just do what will make you happy.  That being said you would be wise to consider a few things before jumping in to buy a plane or rent hangar space.

 

From your posts you've just started training so haven't yet gotten to understand your "mission". The advice to buy for the 90% of flying you do and rent for the rest is sound, you just need to work out what you'll be doing, which is hard when you haven't started getting out by yourself yet. 

 

Practically think of the 6 seat example.  Most se 6 seaters are 4 + bags + fuel and scale the Maths down from there with a few notable exceptions. Also, unless you already know your other half is into small planes don't assume they will line up to come with.  Mrs P occasionally tags along under duty and any child interest in flying had skipped my kids generation, meaning most of my flying is solo / with some other pilots or friends into the small plane vibe.

 

In Melbourne for the location you mentioned you have a few options for renting and it might be good to complete your training, see what type of flying you do and then work out what you are best off getting and rent the rest. 

 

You also don't know how much flying you'll practically do, especially if as you've eluded to family is on the way. That tends to place a limit on hours while life happens.

 

Some things to consider, but if it makes you happy go buy a lance, 206 or Cherokee 6 and go hack. Have fun. 

[facthunter]

When you rent you know the total cost When you Own you are only guessing. The more experience you have the better your final decisions will be.. Flying is one of the best ways to deplete your fortune. Nev

[Blueadventures]

On 08/10/2022 at 10:19 PM, Shu_downunder said:

I've just started training and been dreaming to own a 4-6 seats light airplane, hopefully in the near future. 

Can anyone give me some idea where should I look for source for hangars?

 

I live in North-east of Melbourne, between ESSENDON and Lilydale. 

 

Re cost of hangarage and airfield access allow $5k per year as a start and actual will hopefully be less.  Maintenance should allow at least $2k for starters; GA will be more at times.  Regarding hangars if you find one consider purchase if you can.  Make your decision to purchase an aircraft based on experience in the left seat and where you will fly most.  Don't go off adverts, articles and webb sites to much.  Get the feel during flights and what airfields you will land at.  Enjoy the ride.

[facthunter]

Maybe arrange a visit to TYABB and a good look around won't be a waste of your time. Nev

[kgwilson]

I have only ever flown recreationally. I flew 4 seat Cessnas & Pipers for 40 years. Other than club trips when the 4 seats were filled with 4 pilots, about half my flying was on my own & 45% or possibly more was with my wife as a passenger & sometimes the dog & only 3-4% of the time did I take 2 or 3 passengers, mostly family & friends. I built my RA aircraft & first flew it in 2015. 95% of my flying has been solo since.

 

Get all your endorsements & then rent. It will be heaps cheaper & the aircraft will likely be well maintained & hangared.

[facthunter]

I think that applies to GA. Renting U/L's doesn't seem to be much of a goer. nor should it be  in my view, in a general sense.. The advantage of (some) U/L's is YOU can work on your own. This was of the essence of the original concept. Done properly it can be the SAFEST  of all because no one has more interest in your safety than YOU.    Nev

[kgwilson]

I've seen too many shoddy LAME & L2 jobs to trust anyone else with my aircraft than me. 4-6 seats is GA of course & new will be 3/4 to several million to buy. Cheap 2nd hand will be 50 years old or more and maintenance costs will be very high. Just an annual will cost 5k or more.

Edited October 11, 2022 by kgwilson

[facthunter]

That's if the thing has not been let go. Your first annual could cost you more than the plane did. Nev

[Shu_downunder]

On 10/10/2022 at 12:29 PM, rgmwa said:

Upgrading is usually very expensive, particularly if you need to have it done professionally, which will be necessary as the work (maintenance and upgrades) you can do yourself as the owner of a commercial aircraft (Cessna, Piper, etc) is extremely limited. One option might be to buy a two seater and consider building your own 4 seater over 4-5 years like a Vans RV-10 (expect to pay $250-$300K however). Alternatively, buy a two seater and just hire a larger aircraft if/when you need it - which will probably be far less often that you may be thinking now. Very few private pilots own a six seater.  You may also be able to buy into a syndicate that owns a larger aircraft. There are plenty options, but  none of them will be cheap. Probably the least expensive option would be to own a two-seat experimental aircraft like a Jabiru or Vans and hire a larger plane when you need it.

None of the options will be cheap. - Got it 😰

 

I guess I will go for a 2 seater, hire and try different 4 seaters before finding out the way to go.

[Shu_downunder]

On 10/10/2022 at 2:49 PM, MattP said:

From your posts you've just started training so haven't yet gotten to understand your "mission". The advice to buy for the 90% of flying you do and rent for the rest is sound, you just need to work out what you'll be doing, which is hard when you haven't started getting out by yourself yet. 

I love the word "mission" you used. Even though it's recreational flying, I do have set up a 'mission', which is to bring the kids to see the world via flying. 

It's a 'mission' that could fail easily, as I can't force my families to like what I like. So I have to try the best and prepare for the worst.  Bottom line, I need to have myself and my families expose to as much flying experience as possible.

 

Quote

Practically think of the 6 seat example.  Most se 6 seaters are 4 + bags + fuel and scale the Maths down from there with a few notable exceptions. Also, unless you already know your other half is into small planes don't assume they will line up to come with.  Mrs P occasionally tags along under duty and any child interest in flying had skipped my kids generation, meaning most of my flying is solo / with some other pilots or friends into the small plane vibe.

I've spent 6-7 years to change my wife's attitude from 'no-no', to 'give it a try and let's see...' Although I'm fresh but flying has been a daily discussion in the family. Not too bad a start...

 

Quote

 how much flying you'll practically do

I wish I could do 200h a year. That's an ambitious plan for me.  

 

---

I actually get your point, even though I've prepared a bit more than other starters, there are still bunch of uncertainties. I might just rent for a while before making further decisions.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Shu_downunder

[Shu_downunder]

On 10/10/2022 at 3:30 PM, facthunter said:

Maybe arrange a visit to TYABB and a good look around won't be a waste of your time. Nev

Thanks, the flying club looks cool. I will check it out.

[Shu_downunder]

22 hours ago, kgwilson said:

I have only ever flown recreationally. I flew 4 seat Cessnas & Pipers for 40 years. Other than club trips when the 4 seats were filled with 4 pilots, about half my flying was on my own & 45% or possibly more was with my wife as a passenger & sometimes the dog & only 3-4% of the time did I take 2 or 3 passengers, mostly family & friends. I built my RA aircraft & first flew it in 2015. 95% of my flying has been solo since.

 

Get all your endorsements & then rent. It will be heaps cheaper & the aircraft will likely be well maintained & hangared.

That's quite convincing!

[Shu_downunder]

6 hours ago, facthunter said:

I think that applies to GA. Renting U/L's doesn't seem to be much of a goer. nor should it be  in my view, in a general sense.. The advantage of (some) U/L's is YOU can work on your own. This was of the essence of the original concept. Done properly it can be the SAFEST  of all because no one has more interest in your safety than YOU.    Nev

What's U/L stand for please?

[rgmwa]

Ultralights. Aircraft that are typically smaller and lighter than Cessnas, Pipers etc. and generally weigh less than 600 kg fully loaded. The definition of UL is a bit rubbery these days as more than a few perform better than your typical Cessna. At the other end of the performance envelope U/L’s would include things like powered hang gliders. They are normally registered by RAAus as opposed to CASA for GA aircraft with VH-xxx registration.

[APenNameAndThatA]

1 hour ago, Shu_downunder said:

None of the options will be cheap. - Got it 😰

 

I guess I will go for a 2 seater, hire and try different 4 seaters before finding out the way to go.

Everything starts with a dream - preferably with a fairy god tax accountant. Maybe you need to develop a fascination with building things in regional areas? Take some lessons and tell us all how they went. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by APenNameAndThatA

[Bosi72]

On 08/10/2022 at 11:19 PM, Shu_downunder said:

I've just started training and been dreaming to own a 4-6 seats light airplane, hopefully in the near future. 

Can anyone give me some idea where should I look for source for hangars?

 

I live in North-east of Melbourne, between ESSENDON and Lilydale. 

 

Where are you doing flying training and in which aircraft? That information may give you the answers to the questions.