NSW motor vehicle licence at 75year old

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

The constant wet weather and regular flooding of roads in Victoria and NSW is probably the biggest single factor in the proliferation of potholes. The adhesion between the asphalt and the underlying road base is substantially lowered with continuous wet road conditions, which makes the asphalt lift.

Once a small piece of asphalt lifts, it's only a matter of a short time of repeated hammering by thousands of tyres and the small pothole becomes a big one.

 

Cracks in asphalt with road movement (and road formations do flex regularly under heavy loads), leads to water ingress that gets in between the asphalt and road base, and that is how and where the majority of seal adhesion failure occurs.

In the old days, the highways depts would send road workers out with a watering can of hot liquid bitumen, that they would pour onto asphalt cracks, to prevent water ingress.

Constant cost reductions, and the dangers of working amongst heavy traffic travelling at high speed, has seen this job largely disappear.

That's the normal road deterioration we're familiar with.

This pothole sequence is something different. They never seem to grow to more than about 400 mm diameter - more like a hole-punch into the road than cracking.

 

We do design and construct our roads under the flexible pavement method  where a heavy wheel load depresses the road surface in a wave as the vehicle moves along.  A loaded truck in the 1960s used to produce about the same cracking and damage as 10,000 car passes. 

[facthunter]

Except when Andrew Robb did the very secret trade deal with China it was encouraged (Deals with China) by the Libs NP. It's only when they LieNPdecided to huff and puff about  china they changed 180 degrees.. Robb got a payment of $600,000 from China for what? ASSISTING with the as said (secret) trade deal that didn't count for much when they started trading  insults fro electoral advantage later.. The  REAL sell out in Victoria was by Jeff Kennet of the SEC . long before all that.

   Who approved the 99 year Lease of Darwin Harbour? The Feds of the time because they could easily over rule a territory as they quickly did with the right to Die legislation. Nev

[turboplanner]

7 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Except when Andrew Robb did the very secret trade deal with China it was encouraged (Deals with China) by the Libs NP. It's only when they LieNPdecided to huff and puff about  china they changed 180 degrees.. Robb got a payment of $600,000 from China for what? ASSISTING with the as said (secret) trade deal that didn't count for much when they started trading  insults fro electoral advantage later.. The  REAL sell out in Victoria was by Jeff Kennet of the SEC . long before all that.

   Who approved the 99 year Lease of Darwin Harbour? The Feds of the time because they could easily over rule a territory as they quickly did with the right to Die legislation. Nev

Is this the Official communist line?

[BrendAn]

37 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

That's the normal road deterioration we're familiar with.

This pothole sequence is something different. They never seem to grow to more than about 400 mm diameter - more like a hole-punch into the road than cracking.

 

We do design and construct our roads under the flexible pavement method  where a heavy wheel load depresses the road surface in a wave as the vehicle moves along.  A loaded truck in the 1960s used to produce about the same cracking and damage as 10,000 car passes. 

how thick do they make the road base in vic.  is it too thin do you think.

[spacesailor]

The Road , outside my house was laid so cheaply it cracked-up , shortly after, the contractors came & poured liquid tar into the cracks , and years later it looks like crazy paving!  .

But it,s holding together .

spacesailor

[turboplanner]

19 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

how thick do they make the road base in vic.  is it too thin do you think.

In the CRB days Victorian roads were generally very smooth to drive on and stayed that way for decades.

Today there's undulation right through the state. Some freewys are smooth, some have the subsidence. Today contractors tend to build the roads, and perhaps the road base is too thin.

 

[facthunter]

I have no knowledge of any official Communist line and am not one. Don't be lazy Turbs you can check it all. It's all on record. Nev

[coljones]

On 17/10/2022 at 10:23 AM, Geoff_H said:

My Class 2 far exceeds the motor vehicle medical, but the beauricracy of the government prevents it from being a satisfactory substitute.  

the number of drivers with CASA medicals is bugger all.  Rather than caving in to each pressure group (like those with self certification following the homeopathic manual) the transport authorities have decided to insist on people doing it their way.  Seems fair to me, I don't want to share the road with someone with an iridologist medical cert.

[coljones]

On 26/10/2022 at 3:28 PM, facthunter said:

80km/hr or 80 k. Shouldn't be permitted really It's only for the vehicle to hit the road cheaper, and save boot space, but that doesn't work when you try to put the full sized tyre somewhere. Nev

My spare is 80k which is fast enough to get to a repair point (or even back to the big smoke for an exotic replacement).  Being a member of NRMA helps.

[facthunter]

So it doesn't affect the braking or handling.? You don't know what conditions it will be called upon to react to. The car is technically unroadworthy with a non standard tyre. This allowance is not needed as It's not universal in it's application. A car travelling at 80KPH on a freeway is also a hazard. 30 Kph difference with the normal traffic is a fair closing speed.  Nev

[coljones]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

So it doesn't affect the braking or handling.? You don't know what conditions it will be called upon to react to. The car is technically unroadworthy with a non standard tyre. This allowance is not needed as It's not universal in it's application. A car travelling at 80KPH on a freeway is also a hazard. 30 Kph difference with the normal traffic is a fair closing speed.  Nev

I'm sure there is an ADR that covers spares.  The performance of some of these spare tyres is probably no worse than XPly tires on early holdens, fords, morris minors or gogomobiles.  these days you probably need to call out NRMA to change the tire anyway (who carries a 6 foot wheel brace these days?) and their agent will give you instructions about what to do next.  Got a 6 foot wheel brace?  you don't need advice from us.

Edited October 31, 2022 by coljones

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, coljones said:

I'm sure there is an ADR that covers spares.  The performance of some of these spare tyres is probably no worse than XPly tires on early holdens, fords, morris minors or gogomobiles.  these days you probably need to call out NRMA to change the tire anyway (who carries a 6 foot wheel brace these days?) and their agent will give you instructions about what to do next.  Got a 6 foot wheel brace?  you don't need advice from us.

Those spacesavers are dangerous if not driven correctly and what are going on about. 6 ft wheel brace.

[coljones]

31 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Those spacesavers are dangerous if not driven correctly and what are going on about. 6 ft wheel brace.

Have you tried to get the wheel nuts off with a standard brace?

[BrendAn]

3 minutes ago, coljones said:

Have you tried to get the wheel nuts off with a standard brace?

Hundreds of times. I still carry a standard cross brace.  I don't do my trucks though. The tyre place rattles them on that tight I break 3/4 drive sockets on them.

[Geoff_H]

In the 1970's I was commissioned to do a study on bolt failures.  Amongst the things that I discovered was that 90% of the bolt load is taken by the first 1.5 threads. So over tightening, using the full impact force of a rattle gun just damaged the threads.  The tyre service I use these days has a torque limiter on their rattle guns.  I was able to use the cars wheel wrench to change the flat tyre.  If your tyre fitter over  tightens the bolts you are at risk of stud failure.  

[BrendAn]

54 minutes ago, Geoff_H said:

In the 1970's I was commissioned to do a study on bolt failures.  Amongst the things that I discovered was that 90% of the bolt load is taken by the first 1.5 threads. So over tightening, using the full impact force of a rattle gun just damaged the threads.  The tyre service I use these days has a torque limiter on their rattle guns.  I was able to use the cars wheel wrench to change the flat tyre.  If your tyre fitter over  tightens the bolts you are at risk of stud failure.  

Yes. I have seen the limiters on rattle guns. In my day we just set the rattle gun on a lower setting and tightened them by hand once the car was back on the ground.   All the truck tyre places I go to rattle them tight and go over them with the torque wrench which is pretty silly because the nuts have been rattled tighter than the torque setting.  Had a flat last month and the bloke had to drag out the inch drive gun .

[skippydiesel]

On wheel nut torque - It can sometimes be hard to find in your cars handbook (amongst pages & pages of gadget operating instructions)  but somewhere there will be a recommended torque setting and  tightening pattern. It is likely to be surprisingly low (especially for alloy rims) and is well within the capacity of a hand wheel brace to loosen/tighten.  I do my own servicing (inc wheel rotations) and use a torque wrench, to tighten my vehicles wheel nuts, to the manufacturers recommended value (usually less than the random tightening a tyre repair shop will deliver with a rattle gun) and have never had a problem with the wheel staying on or distortion of the rim.

[Geoff_H]

The stud is a spring.  Steel is elastic and by extending it just a little very large forces can be generated to hold two things together. How much force is a function of pressure in a cylinder or sideways forces on wheels. The true way to determine the force is to measure the bolt extension.  Difficult on small bolts, easily done on large bolts.   The extension on small bolts is infered by the torque applied to the nut.  The wedge force determines the bolt force by mechanical infered calculations taking into account friction in the nut.  Bolts can be over stressed particularly when it is the first 1.5 threads that take the overwhelming part of the strain. It the wheel nuts are overtightened the threads are put under stresses that will allow the thread areas of both the nut and bolt to permanently deform and eventually break the bolt or strip the thread.  

[turboplanner]

21 minutes ago, Geoff_H said:

The stud is a spring.  Steel is elastic and by extending it just a little very large forces can be generated to hold two things together. How much force is a function of pressure in a cylinder or sideways forces on wheels. The true way to determine the force is to measure the bolt extension.  Difficult on small bolts, easily done on large bolts.   The extension on small bolts is infered by the torque applied to the nut.  The wedge force determines the bolt force by mechanical infered calculations taking into account friction in the nut.  Bolts can be over stressed particularly when it is the first 1.5 threads that take the overwhelming part of the strain. It the wheel nuts are overtightened the threads are put under stresses that will allow the thread areas of both the nut and bolt to permanently deform and eventually break the bolt or strip the thread.  

In terms of wheel nuts, check the operators manual, use the torque settings.

In trucks with disc wheels that may make the difference between a long happy life and one of your wheels passing you down the road. It also may require a leverage length which you haven't thought about and don't carry in the truck. Rattle guns tend to overtighten which over time will crack a stud. The remaining studs then don't supply enough clampng pressure and then......etc.

If you opt to paint the wheels as part of fleet colours, the paint must be removed from the mating surfaces of wheel and hub or a few days or weeks later the wheel will pass you on the road.

How do I know this? I was part of a programme solving runaway wheels by the dozen.

[old man emu]

I don't allow the use of a rattle gun when work is done on my wheels. If you think about the apparent intelligence levels of tyre fitters, you will soon come to the conclusion that they could have no understanding of the relevance of torque specifications to the safe operation of fasteners.

[facthunter]

Quite a few times I've replaced overtensioned wheel studs. Alloy wheels should be treated even more carefully as they expand with disc brake heat and further increase stud tension..  Tension wrench is the best approach. Not every tyre place is  so crude. My bloke does mechanical work on luxury cars and trouble shoots the modern stuff.  Otherwise  I do it myself but  that's getting a bit difficult., Nev

[turboplanner]

3 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Quite a few times I've replaced overtensioned wheel studs. Alloy wheels should be treated even more carefully as they expand with disc brake heat and further increase stud tension..  Tension wrench is the best approach. Not every tyre place is  so crude. My bloke does mechanical work on luxury cars and trouble shoots the modern stuff.  Otherwise  I do it myself but  that's getting a bit difficult., Nev

Time you learnt to do the modern cars. It’s just the basics x 3. You need to buy a few tools, extras like small beam torque wrenches, angle gauges and get up to speed on about 3 new types of sealing. It’s actually more satisfying because you are working at closer tolerances, so a lot less fine tuning.....forgot the big cranked needle nose pliers to get a million hose clamps off and twist the hoses, and a careful study of how the electrical connectors unclip and reclip, and because there are so many bolts of different lengths, a log of each one that comes out.

 

then it’s just crank and rev

[facthunter]

It's difficult because I can't lift the weights I used to. & stretch across the engine.  I've never monstered an electrical connection in my life.   Nev

[kgwilson]

The recommended torque for the wheel nuts on my car is 88-108 NM, alloy wheels. Whenever I get new tyres the tyre shop tightens them so tight with a rattle gun they are impossible to get off with a standard spare wheel brace supplied with the car. They are even hard to remove with the long handle of my 1/2 inch drive socket set. I then torque them all to 90NM and if I have a puncture I can undo them all with the standard spare wheel brace.

 

So many people have never changed a wheel these days and have no idea what to do except make a phone call.

 

You won't usually find the torque settings in the specifications or Wheels section of the owners handbook. Check the "For Emergencies" section which will have details regarding changing a wheel. That is where the torque settings are in my cars handbook.

[spacesailor]

My brother has lost at least Three wheels , that I know of.

AND he only has servo,s & mechanic workshops service his cars !.

But he never does an Annual service , " if it hasn,t been run it doesn,t need a service " & then it breaks-down for that chrismas holiday .

spacesailor