Moving an Ultra-light from NSW to TAS?

[shaz]

Really appreciate all the messages and ideas folks; I'm mulling over the following now:

- Got a $5k transport quote which is still a lot, but they can do it in the next few days
- Spend $3k-4k on a car trailer, and I think it's around $2k return on the Spirit with a trailer and do it myself over a long weekend. Bonus that I can probably sell the car trailer or just keep using it for the plane and other projects / motorbike. Can probably borrow a friends Ute for towing (current car doesn't have a tow bar).

- Take the empennage + engine off the frame and chuck it all in a LWB van (only need around 4m for the fuselage), and bring out down on the Spirit - this will be around $2500 for one way van hire + $1k for the ferry, will need a weekend to do it

- I get the impression stripping a Caravan or getting a container / crate is a more work / time and doesn't really save much more money? Will look into it though

 

I'm also genuinely debating spending $2-3k to just get it all assembled and registered again and fly it down - I've crossed the Bass Strait a few times in an SR22T (but way up in the flight levels) - not sure how I feel about a Rotax 447 doing it; not to mention needing to carry a life raft / survival gear, plus making sure there's a tailwind to help me along etc. It'll be one hell of an adventure though.

[shaz]

Also - I just want say a heartfelt thanks to all those chipping in with ideas and thoughts and links; it's greatly appreciated - I'm not that new to GA but owning an ultralight and flying this tiny airplane is still very new to me, and I'm so glad to see there's a lot of folks who've gone through this willing to share their experiences!

Edited October 17, 2022 by shaz
Spelling Error

[Steve L]

Skippy, I had override brakes on hundreds of rental trailers around SA without any problems, although I converted to disks early in the piece. I started with the run of the mill Mullins drum brakes, approx 50 units, and your right. . . a nightmare. So I converted to Holden HQ disks/calipers and marine seals, left the override coupling standard. The brakes then were exceptional with no adjustment and minimal wheel bearing failures. 
 

Steve 

[BrendAn]

17 minutes ago, Steve L said:

Check out a 20ft container, you can pack it yourself (lock it) then unload yourself. It might be cheeped than you think and I’m sure most transport companies will let you load it in their yard if your quick. I shipped the Bulldog from the UK that way and the container was around $3000 delivered to the pickup point UK end and I unloaded it myself in the customs yard in Pt Adelaide. 
that was the CHEAPEST part of the exercise, then customs and C.A.S.A got their talons into me.
 

good luck
 

Steve  

trouble is since covid container freight cost has gone through the roof.

[Steve L]

Bugga  I didn’t realise that Brendan

[BrendAn]

Just now, Steve L said:

Bugga  I didn’t realise that Brendan

there was a whitegoods importer on the radio saying he is now paying $18000 for a container shipment compared to $3000 before covid.

 

[Marty_d]

56 minutes ago, shaz said:

Also - I just want say a heartfelt thanks to all those chipping in with ideas and thoughts and links; it's greatly appreciated - I'm not that new to GA but owning an ultralight and flying this tiny airplane is still very new to me, and I'm so glad to see there's a lot of folks who've gone through this willing to share their experiences!

Hey Shaz, I notice your profile says Hobart - where are you planning to fly from?

 

Interested as I have a 90% complete CH701 underway and hopefully in the next couple of years be looking for a home airfield.

I'm at Allens Rivulet, will PM you my details - if you're ever down my way, feel free to drop in for a coffee and a chat!

[RFguy]

How wide is the tailplane ? On my Jab I moved this was ~ 2650mm . the overhang on the sides was not visible. and only 150km. However  you need to get on The Spirit , then that aint gonna fly I guess. Otherwise the big car trailer  and do what I and Thruster88 did on the weekend, and what most do. Nosewheel on a big block on the drawbar, wings on mattresses  lengthways under the whole thing....

 

 

[shaz]

8 hours ago, BrendAn said:

trouble is since covid container freight cost has gone through the roof.

 

Yup - 20’ container is coming in around $8-10k delivered, apparently there’s a shortage of them all over the world.
 

8 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Hey Shaz, I notice your profile says Hobart - where are you planning to fly from?

 

Interested as I have a 90% complete CH701 underway and hopefully in the next couple of years be looking for a home airfield.

I'm at Allens Rivulet, will PM you my details - if you're ever down my way, feel free to drop in for a coffee and a chat!

I haven’t gotten that far yet! Bruny island I think the closest CTAF / class G I think, and certainly will! I’ve also got a Sonex kit I’m going to start in the next free months!

 

4 minutes ago, RFguy said:

How wide is the tailplane ? On my Jab I moved this was ~ 2650mm . the overhang on the sides was not visible. and only 150km. However  you need to get on The Spirit , then that aint gonna fly I guess. Otherwise the big car trailer  and do what I and Thruster88 did on the weekend, and what most do. Nosewheel on a big block on the drawbar, wings on mattresses  lengthways under the whole thing....

 

 

 

It folds up pretty neatly so not an issue;

[RFguy]

Hang it under a Jabiru 230 or empty Cherokee.

 

[kgwilson]

In the 70s a friend landed his hang glider in the surf at a beach. The surf won. We folded it all up & but it in the boot of a Morris Minor.

[skippydiesel]

10 hours ago, Steve L said:

Skippy, I had override brakes on hundreds of rental trailers around SA without any problems, although I converted to disks early in the piece. I started with the run of the mill Mullins drum brakes, approx 50 units, and your right. . . a nightmare. So I converted to Holden HQ disks/calipers and marine seals, left the override coupling standard. The brakes then were exceptional with no adjustment and minimal wheel bearing failures. 
 

Steve 

Sorry Steve - I cant agree that a brake system that works by compressing a big spring, curtesy of a decelerating tow vehicle,  is (any longer) an acceptable braking system. Only reason hire companies still use them is that "weekend worriers" with tow bar but no electric brakes, want to hire them.

 

My mate was towing a loaded hired car trailer (override brakes) down a long steep hill, when he managed to "jackknife" the trailer (very near the bottom) and ended up under a "dog" trailer going in the opposite direction. Yes there were (as always) other factors, gravel on the road, the tow vehicle was just over its maximum allowable towing limit (which to my mind was too high anyway) but I very much doubt if he would have lost control if electric brakes had been used.

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Sorry Steve - I cant agree that a brake system that works by compressing a big spring, curtesy of a decelerating tow vehicle,  is (any longer) an acceptable braking system. Only reason hire companies still use them is that "weekend worriers" with tow bar but no electric brakes, want to hire them.

 

My mate was towing a loaded hired car trailer (override brakes) down a long steep hill, when he managed to "jackknife" the trailer (very near the bottom) and ended up under a "dog" trailer going in the opposite direction. Yes there were (as always) other factors, gravel on the road, the tow vehicle was just over its maximum allowable towing limit (which to my mind was too high anyway) but I very much doubt if he would have lost control if electric brakes had been used.

I agree they should have been phased out long ago.

In the example you describe up around maximum GVM, the towing vehicle brakes and tyre footprints are being used to compress that big spring and if the brakes haven't been adjusted to maximum efficiency for the towing vehicle, and so doing a lot of fork for it including keeping it straight, the towing vehicle can be pushed off line allowing the rear wheels to slide sideways with the potential for jackknife. I've driven with 2 tonne caravans and bot trailers for years and always drive at about 50%, so I don't get caught in that situation.

 

There's a worse one and that is when you do adjust the trailer up to do its full share of the braking load and you're going down a hill the trailer will override on to the brake master cylinder, lock up the trailet brakes, let go as soon as the master cylinder let go, come in harder and faster and get into a cycle where the trailer wheels are locking, pushing you in the back, you brake as everything accelerates,  the trailer slams forward and locks up again. On a steep slope this will happen even at idle speed and people will come running to tell you your trailer is out of control.

 

 

[Blueadventures]

4 hours ago, shaz said:

 

Yup - 20’ container is coming in around $8-10k delivered, apparently there’s a shortage of them all over the world.
 

I haven’t gotten that far yet! Bruny island I think the closest CTAF / class G I think, and certainly will! I’ve also got a Sonex kit I’m going to start in the next free months!

 

 

It folds up pretty neatly so not an issue;

Get a long box trailer and tow it over.  Should be able to sell trailer to a builder etc and recoup trailer cost.

[Thruster88]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

I agree they should have been phased out long ago.

In the example you describe up around maximum GVM, the towing vehicle brakes and tyre footprints are being used to compress that big spring and if the brakes haven't been adjusted to maximum efficiency for the towing vehicle, and so doing a lot of fork for it including keeping it straight, the towing vehicle can be pushed off line allowing the rear wheels to slide sideways with the potential for jackknife. I've driven with 2 tonne caravans and bot trailers for years and always drive at about 50%, so I don't get caught in that situation.

 

There's a worse one and that is when you do adjust the trailer up to do its full share of the braking load and you're going down a hill the trailer will override on to the brake master cylinder, lock up the trailet brakes, let go as soon as the master cylinder let go, come in harder and faster and get into a cycle where the trailer wheels are locking, pushing you in the back, you brake as everything accelerates,  the trailer slams forward and locks up again. On a steep slope this will happen even at idle speed and people will come running to tell you your trailer is out of control.

 

 

Now the OP's question has been answered we could talk trailers and brakes, I feel responsible because I mentioned the over rides brakes on my simple trailer. As anyone who has ever owned a xxxxing trailer will tell you the electrics often have problems, one or all of the lights not working etc, electric brakes are no different. They will work perfectly until they don't, just have to hope it's not when you really need them. My mechanical disc, wire rope operated over ride brake is simple, easy to test and check and it just works all the time without any of the issues turbo mentioned. 

 

As others have mentioned drive as if the trailer has no brakes and live a long life, just like flying, always have margin.

[Blueadventures]

10 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

Now the OP's question has been answered we could talk trailers and brakes, I feel responsible because I mentioned the over rides brakes on my simple trailer. As anyone who has ever owned a xxxxing trailer will tell you the electrics often have problems, one or all of the lights not working etc, electric brakes are no different. They will work perfectly until they don't, just have to hope it's not when you really need them. My mechanical disc, wire rope operated over ride brake is simple, easy to test and check and it just works all the time without any of the issues turbo mentioned. 

 

As others have mentioned drive as if the trailer has no brakes and live a long life, just like flying, always have margin.

I'm in your camp,  have used the mechanical brakes for over 40 years.  Legal on certain size trailers in Queensland.  Maintenance includes making sure brake disc in good shape and machined surface good condition, pads good, wire length adjusted etc.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Blueadventures

[turboplanner]

1 minute ago, Thruster88 said:

Now the OP's question has been answered we could talk trailers and brakes, I feel responsible because I mentioned the over rides brakes on my simple trailer. As anyone who has ever owned a xxxxing trailer will tell you the electrics often have problems, one or all of the lights not working etc, electric brakes are no different. They will work perfectly until they don't, just have to hope it's not when you really need them. My mechanical disc, wire rope operated over ride brake is simple, easy to test and check and it just works all the time without any of the issues turbo mentioned. 

 

As others have mentioned drive as if the trailer has no brakes and live a long life, just like flying, always have margin.

LOL.................I've had runs for years with no issues, and I agree; drive as if the trailer has no brakes and no problems because you're not engaging the trailer brakes.

I had one serious problem on a posted steep downgrade in Qld where the over-ride didn't kick in and the brakes on the auto Navara were smoking even with the auto in low. Adjusted them a bit tighter and didn't have a problem for a few years and someone cut in front of me at a set of lights in the city and I had to keep the towing vehicle brakes on hard or run up the back of him. The caravan acted like a battering ram with repeated bangs then wheel lock up then bang again.

At the other end of the adjustment scale is the downhill braking from the weight of the trailer which I mentioned before. I think the difficulty is that the adjustment is quite fine between one extreme and the other, and it's not until you experience those traffic events that you find out.

 

[facthunter]

With over ride brakes you can still use then when the trailler is uncoupled manually.. I always greased the slide bit and kept eveything freely moving and no  shudder ever. Replace the master cylinder occasionally due corrosion because it's out inthe weather. Cheap standard item. Nev

[turboplanner]

17 minutes ago, facthunter said:

With over ride brakes you can still use then when the trailler is uncoupled manually.. I always greased the slide bit and kept eveything freely moving and no  shudder ever. Replace the master cylinder occasionally due corrosion because it's out inthe weather. Cheap standard item. Nev

What weight is your trailer and load?

 

[onetrack]

I've always used override hydraulic brakes. Never had a problem with either brakes or the mechanism, unless the wheel cylinders leaked. Always kept everything in good order, and drove to the conditions. I own 4 trailers, 2 single axle and 2 large tandems (6' x 12' fully caged and a 14' x 6.5' car trailer).

I've recently bought a 7x5 trailer single axle trailer with cable disc brakes. I had to rebuild the entire braking system on the 7x5 trailer, it had been used on a minesite and red mud and salt water for dust suppression took its toll.

I got it all working spot on, after much rust removal, sandblasting of parts, plenty of Never-Seez, new stainless cables, new pads, machined discs - and it works a treat. The trailer's licenced for 1.25 tonne, and I have no problem in traffic with it loaded.

 

All the trailer and caravan prangs I've some across (and that's plenty, I saw 13 in just one year), were almost always related to driving like there was nothing attached - or improper loading that caused tailwag - with almost aways, immediate loss of control. Top-of-the-wozza electric brakes don't compensate for a badly-loaded trailer or caravan. There's a lot of bad trailer and caravan design around, too, with a lot of them, just an accident waiting to happen. 

 

Electrics on trailers in my neck of the woods suffer from constant corrosion from ironstone gravels that also often contain a high level of salt. They're a PIA to keep operating. Add in some water immersion, and you've got continual maintenance.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by onetrack

[facthunter]

Turbs up to about  one tonne. Dual axle with long "A" tracked like you had nothing on it and never slightly swayed or wobbled ever. NO spring in the thing that actuates the Hydraulics and the set up moved the cylinder rod more than the movement of the sliding part to the tow ball so it never pushed the tow vehicle significantly. You have to put a hinged blocker down  to reverse  the trailer to prevent the brakes applying.. Nev

[skippydiesel]

Well I have used both override and electric and I will never go back to overridden.

 

I have towed large double floats (600 kg x 2 horses, plus all gear & feed for weekend coemption probably 2.5-3 tonne all up) . Numerous configurations of dual axle flat/box trailers - never had a brake problem. Why? because I do my own (re) wiring, to a standard far beyond the usual commercial rubbish.  I minimise connections and where they are unavoidable make sure they are tight & well sealed against moisture/dirt. I run a separate earth/ground wire front to back, that connects in with the tug plug system (which also has a dedicated earth system to the trailer hitch).  Brake wiring is on a separate parallel circuit (not in series like some trailer places ) to each wheel, using HD wire. All wires are, wherever possible, contained in conduit (usually recycled polly pipe & properly supported along length). If I have to cross the trailer chassis, I try to put the wiring behind a chassis frame or in a chassis tube, to avoid "gravel rash"  None of its rocket science and the brakes can be set by the driver (in his/her seat on the go) to reflect any change in load/conditions. Lights always work as do the brakes - easy!

Edited October 18, 2022 by skippydiesel

[Steve L]

Skippy,

I mostly agree with you but one can’t put electric brakes on hire trailers. We have electric brakes on our race trailer which grosses over 4T but they aren’t foolproof either. It’s common to see them overheated due to riding on long downhills (not by us on our trailer but by customers) this doesn’t happen with override as one you have to push the foot pedal. Another disadvantage with electric is that pesky magnet setup shakes to bits with high usage or/and rough terrain and it’s not easy to detect with a visual inspection. Overheating can cause magnet failure also, but hey electric is the easiest system to fit breakaway to. 
 

Nev, 

we used the heaviest spring in the override coupler to help avoid customers who didn’t throw the the reverse catch. We had to make the trailers as people proof as possible, 

 

we seem to be drifting off topic like we do at times, 😋

[planedriver]

Plenty of options and advice here.

What a great site we have.

 

[Bosi72]

I wouldn't worry too much with dual axle trailer loaded at 150kg.

Also, a number of 4wd's, utes and cars these days have a trailer sway control.