Selling a plane

[turboplanner]

20 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said:

Many of our little engines only do a dozen or so hours per year. I’ll be expecting a birthday telegram from the King before mine even nears 1,000 hours.

That's one of the considerations when choosing between owning and hiring.

The hire aircraft are being lubricated every day so the seals are oiled 100% of the time.

 

Owning an aircraft and doing 12 hours per year, sometimes stored unused for months puts you into the same category as people with a Historic car who find the upper half of oil seals dry and scouring shafts producing oil leaks, seivzed engines, overheating, hoses blown etc. It is manageable if you understand that, but some people just use aerostart to boost their chances of a start and hope for the best, some get fuel blockages etc, and some finish up with an engine that's not airworthy, so there has to be some sort of management regime.

 

[old man emu]

The flaw in the otherwise flawlwss plan to improve safety is that there is a lack of qualified persons to carry out engine overhauls. And we all know that an aircraft component cannot be returned to service until the Fat Lady signs. The number of engine shops in Australia has dropped in the past ten or so years. What might have been a $30K overhaul of a 4-cylinder Lycoming ten years ago has now climbed to the region of $40K or better. That must surely apply to Rotax engines, and what about converted car engines?

 

A step towards saving little-used engines would be to train owners on how to preserve an engine when it is not in use. 

https://www.avweb.com/features_old/storing-your-airplane-for-the-winter/

[jackc]

I will bet many people who would agree to these rules or MAKE them, have probably never rebuilt an engine in their lives and IF they have……they learnt nothing…….

[jackc]

11 minutes ago, old man emu said:

The flaw in the otherwise flawlwss plan to improve safety is that there is a lack of qualified persons to carry out engine overhauls. And we all know that an aircraft component cannot be returned to service until the Fat Lady signs. The number of engine shops in Australia has dropped in the past ten or so years. What might have been a $30K overhaul of a 4-cylinder Lycoming ten years ago has now climbed to the region of $40K or better. That must surely apply to Rotax engines, and what about converted car engines?

 

A step towards saving little-used engines would be to train owners on how to preserve an engine when it is not in use. 

https://www.avweb.com/features_old/storing-your-airplane-for-the-winter/

And you get this……an Aviator visiting this area blew up the Gypsy Major? motor  in his Auster. Terminal damage that made it  unrepairable.  So, he managed to find a secondhand engine and fitted it,  Yesterday he finished the job but had a destination some 800km away and was hoping to leave by lunch to return to his base.  I thought he may run it up for a while and even do a test flight.  I heard fire up in the nearby hangar and thought it sounded fine.  He is taxiing out and was intending to leave about 2.00pm, he gets 50 metres and cough, splutter, wheeze for a couple of seconds and it clears…..I thought OK…..another cough splutter etc then SILENCE.   Well I am glad it never took off…….anything could have happened.  Tow back to hangar, today is another day.  

They make rules for a reason, to cater for those who are dumb and have no clue, but there are many of us who can do a better job than even qualified people…….but we are hamstrung by a heap of rules that restrict the dedicated and knowledgeable from simply doing their own thing.  My Aeropup was a case in point, handed to me as a flying death trap……me as Qualifired Dozer Operator fixed it….a qualified person complimented me on my work.   Lots of rules are not the total answer……

[facthunter]

The worst thing about just picking up an old motor and firing it up Is sludge in the oilways coming loose, rusty bores pugging up rings and rusty exhaust valve stems jambing open. A backfiring cylinder can force charge into others by opening the inlet valves against the spring pressure or blowing out inlet manifold gaskets or damaging the carburettors collapsing brass floats  and tearing diaphragms.  Backfiring does no good but amuse people in George Formby movies.  Engines don't fix themselves. YOU make your OWN luck.  Nev

[onetrack]

I've seen fully reconditioned engines stored in a regular dry warehouse lock up with corrosion in the bores within 2 years. Oil drains off vertical surfaces enough to allow corrosion to start, with 3 months.

 

As OME says, learn how to preserve your engine. Anyone who owns a fossil-fuel powered machine that doesn't start it, and run it up to operating temperature once a month, is looking for trouble.

[facthunter]

It takes about a 45 minute flight to do that properly. People leave their pride and joy out the front of the clubhouse and then taxi it to the hanger and leave it sit for weeks. A disaster. Burned fuel makes water . Plenty of it and combined with the products of combustion impurities starts a very corrosive process, in a very short time.  Learn HOW to look after your engine(s) in a practical and effective way.  Prevention is better than cure. Nev

[Yenn]

All aircraft have an annual, so it doesn't matter how many hours you do in a year. Every year the engine will be run up to temperature and check of power output. Then it will have a compression or leak down test. It will also be checked for oil leaks or any signs of deteriorated joints or gaskets.

An old engine may be perfectly good or the gaskets and seals may be deteriorating, but it should show up at the annual.

Those in power love to control us and think about what could happen, then dream up rules to prevent it happening. They should also look into the likelihood of it happening.

[Jabiru7252]

My Ford transit van sat for two years in the back yard, started after a new battery was fitted and ran fine.

[turboplanner]

Just now, Jabiru7252 said:

My Ford transit van sat for two years in the back yard, started after a new battery was fitted and ran fine.

Alby Mangels managed to get a couple of US WW2 trucks on Palmyra Island started after longer.

I managed 3 seized engines in a row one year, all after being idle for about a year. I couldn't turn the dozer engine with a crow bar.

[facthunter]

The older type diesels can sit better than a lot of Petrol motors unless you get a bit of water in through a place like the air cleaner Diesel itself is pretty oily. Nev

[Thruster88]

When group G is finally done it will be interesting to see if the 12 year thing applies to the Cessna 150/152 if any come to RAAus.   

[jackc]

It’s starting to look like exiting GA to go RAA with be jumping out of the frying pan, into the fire.

?  Ditch RAA and save rego and membership and go from RAA to VH rego will save a lot of money each year? 

Was a big discussion on it at Narromine from what I was told, then join SAAA. if you want to, but not compulsory. 

When I bought my Jabiru, one question I was asked……was I going to change it to VH?   Not worried right now, just want to fly it 🙂 

[BrendAn]

17 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

When group G is finally done it will be interesting to see if the 12 year thing applies to the Cessna 150/152 if any come to RAAus.   

I rang raaus.  It seems to be certified aircraft only that are affected by calender time. If the maintenance is up to date and recorded you can apply to raaus to go on condition. It's probably always been that way .

[RFguy]

Yes, there are many RAAUS aircraft that become E24 (experimental) when their rotaxes run out of time.  Still requires an AP (authorized person) to do the paperwork. But no big deal. 

[Yenn]

Why join SAAA. They do not administer any part of aviation, they mainly are interested in building and maintenance. If you have a C150 for example you will not be able to do the annual inspection if you are an SAAA member. Their inspection and maintenance is only for planes you have built yourself or similar ones and CASA gets to say what is similar. They said an RV4 would be similar to an RV8, but they did not say an RV6 or 7, which are just the same maintenance wise as RV4 and 8. Join SAAA if you are like me and have built a Corby Starlet or similar, then you can dispense with annual fees and rego. But you ill have to re register it GA and that is not toodifficult, but you have to find an approved person to do it, which may involve more expense than a few yeas of RAAus fees.

[coljones]

On 30/10/2022 at 11:30 AM, jackc said:

I will bet many people who would agree to these rules or MAKE them, have probably never rebuilt an engine in their lives and IF they have……they learnt nothing…….

or maybe they have.

Edited October 31, 2022 by coljones
spelling

[BrendAn]

20 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

When group G is finally done it will be interesting to see if the 12 year thing applies to the Cessna 150/152 if any come to RAAus.   

Isn't group g just to facilitate people who fail the ga medical. They switch to raaus to keep flying but Cessna's must still be maintained by lames.

[Blueadventures]

11 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Isn't group g just to facilitate people who fail the ga medical. They switch to raaus to keep flying but Cessna's must still be maintained by lames.

Its more to allow RAAus members to build / operate aircraft up to 760kg MTOW.  Some aircraft therefore will be a stronger more robust airframes and others won't, just depends on the brand / model / design etc.  The 760 will allow some heavier aircraft into RAAus  eg C150 with two seats (there were 4 C150 in RAAus and they had to have one seat removed so only could operate one up.  Medical then will be included and if medical is relaxed for certain VH then that will no longer be an incentive to move into RAAus for some.  More to it but that's my brief overview.

[jackc]

2 hours ago, coljones said:

or maybe they have.

Based on my life’s experience many qualified people have been my worst nightmare, there is probably only a handful of people I would allow to work on my aircraft and NONE that I would trust to work on my cars.   Todays diminishing care factor is becoming a major problem…….

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

Its more to allow RAAus members to build / operate aircraft up to 760kg MTOW.  Some aircraft therefore will be a stronger more robust airframes and others won't, just depends on the brand / model / design etc.  The 760 will allow some heavier aircraft into RAAus  eg C150 with two seats (there were 4 C150 in RAAus and they had to have one seat removed so only could operate one up.  Medical then will be included and if medical is relaxed for certain VH then that will no longer be an incentive to move into RAAus for some.  More to it but that's my brief overview.

I just think it's a grab to increase the membership by bringing in GA people.  They don't seem to be pushing the part 103 equivalent. That's been put on the backburner. Is that because there will be a lot of people who will leave raaus if it comes in.

[skippydiesel]

Cant find it but someone mentioned getting instruction in the new aircraft - be warned,  in RAA, this may only be done in a factory (24) registered aircraft - homebuilt/experimental can only be used for instruction where the pilot/owner is the builder

[Thruster88]

On 22/11/2022 at 10:13 AM, skippydiesel said:

Cant find it but someone mentioned getting instruction in the new aircraft - be warned,  in RAA, this may only be done in a factory (24) registered aircraft - homebuilt/experimental can only be used for instruction where the pilot/owner is the builder

The SAAA has information about getting flight instruction in an amateur built experimental aircraft in the latest email update. It is legal according to CASR 91.880(h) regardless of whether you built or bought the aircraft. Not sure why RAAus would make rules to make it more difficult than it needs to be. As they say it is up to the instructor/ flight school to say yes or no.

 

[skippydiesel]

Back to Selling a Plane - It took me 2 years and several "almost" purchases, to get my current aircraft. During that period, I developed a very strong aversion to  "brokers". They would seem to employ sales strategies long since purged from the second hand car sales industry. Be warned, there may be ethical brokers out there but that was not my experience.

[slb]

On 31/10/2022 at 11:22 AM, BrendAn said:

I rang raaus.  It seems to be certified aircraft only that are affected by calender time. If the maintenance is up to date and recorded you can apply to raaus to go on condition. It's probably always been that way .

In September 2021, as part of the Safety Month, RAAus produced the following video which confirms the on-condition requirements that must be met (watch to the end for clarification). Rotax TBO can be 9, 12 or 15 years depending on the engine serial number.