RA-Aus's Understanding of Safety Videos

[Thruster88]

Have watched the second video in the series 

 

Not impressed. This video flip flopped around like a dying fish for 27 minutes. Flying correct airspeed in the circuit was never mentioned.  Low airspeed is now called low energy apparently. A student or nervous pilot might be turned off flying after watching this. 

 

There was one decent bit from 18.5 minutes to 20.0

 

[jackc]

There is lots of good YouTube stuff, and not so good. You need to sift the wheat from the chaff.  Jason Miller from “The “Finer Points”  has some good stuff.

[Area-51]

There are some great comments from both sides here regarding these awareness presentation videos...

 

Preservation, loss, and gain of energy... yes that happens... the fuel goes in the front and waste goes out the rear... sounds pretty normal; what bit of the cow are we talking about here? Who cares, its all energy, moves all over the shop constantly, "just fly the plane"... 

 

"When does a stall finish and spin begin?" ... that would be when the words "oh $&@?" are spoken... not joking...

 

Two dimensional expectations attitudes and thinking will eventually get you killed in a three dimensional playing field... And there lies the rosetta stone of being an aviator.

 

Which way is up? - Irrelevant question for flying aircraft.

Spending dollars to produce videos to bring awareness toward LOC... (an infomercial) hmmm... how about this instead - "all individuals wishing to successfully complete their basic training to solo level are required to complete three hours of practical LOC training with an LOC qualified instructor" - because everybody will watch the videos and sign up on their own won't they??

 

To RaAus' credit they do suggest go and get specialist LOC training - Risk responsibility occurrence mitigated.

 

Will LOC fatalities continue to occur? Probably.

 

Will EFATO situations continue to occur? Probably.

 

Will CFIT incidents continue to occur? Probably

 

Will in flight mechanical failures continue to occur? Probably

 

What percentage difference might these awareness videos actually make... 0.1% uptake of total viewer audience.

 

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

 

Don't forget to enjoy it...

 

[turboplanner]

5 hours ago, Area-51 said:

To RaAus' credit they do suggest go and get specialist LOC training - Risk responsibility occurrence mitigated.

I'd suggest they are responsible through their instructors for issuing certificates to pilot an aircraft with all its forseeable risks. 

 

This thread to me indicates this might not be the best way to discharge duty of care.

[jackc]

44 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

I'd suggest they are responsible through their instructors for issuing certificates to pilot an aircraft with all its forseeable risks. 

 

This thread to me indicates this might not be the best way to discharge duty of care.

Don’t lean too hard on decent Instructors…….or there will be NONE left.   They will simply call it a day and enjoy their twilight years flying there own planes. 

[turboplanner]

56 minutes ago, jackc said:

Don’t lean too hard on decent Instructors…….or there will be NONE left.   They will simply call it a day and enjoy their twilight years flying there own planes. 

Most of us have no bearing on that. It’s a clean system that works backwards from a crash where someone’s killed or injured.

[jackc]

51 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Most of us have no bearing on that. It’s a clean system that works backwards from a crash where someone’s killed or injured.

With the advent of most organisations wanting to treat crash investigations like hot potatoes.  It’s getting to a situation where people care less, just want to do their own thing.  Why become involved?   An old DC-3 pilot I was talking to a couple days ago said to me, WHY even bother with even having a licence, you don’t need one to be a good pilot 🙂 I said a resounding YES!!!  Licences will never stop crashes.

You can still be.a crap pilot with a licence and a hay stack high list of endorsements and still crash.

As a PIC, the whole buck stops with you as a pilot.  Be it a 747 or an Aerolyte 103

 

[facthunter]

Master of a vessel. The buck stops with you.  Nev

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

With the advent of most organisations wanting to treat crash investigations like hot potatoes.  It’s getting to a situation where people care less, just want to do their own thing.  Why become involved?   An old DC-3 pilot I was talking to a couple days ago said to me, WHY even bother with even having a licence, you don’t need one to be a good pilot 🙂 I said a resounding YES!!!  Licences will never stop crashes.

You can still be.a crap pilot with a licence and a hay stack high list of endorsements and still crash.

As a PIC, the whole buck stops with you as a pilot.  Be it a 747 or an Aerolyte 103

 

The old DC3 pilot in using the word "licence" was probably talking about GA flying which, like driving on roads is, controlled by prescriptive laws. Quite a few motorists don't bother with licences and you'll see them on RBT and Highway Patrol trading up from a broken tail light to a couple of thousand dollars in fines, 6 mths to 2 years licence suspension or a car impound. In other words where not getting a licence is naughty CASA might prosecute you, in GA flying.

 

However, about 35 years ago a group of aviators took advantage of the shift by State and Territory governments in public liability to allow some exemptions for people to fly under Self Administration, subject to some conditions.  That was the birth of Recreational Aviation.

 

That reversed the game 180 degrees. The participants were now doing the job of CASA and managing themselves against performance guidelines, the performance being theirs. If anyone got hurt and someone sued it was their (the participants') problem, not the government's.

 

It was no longer smart to be a naughty boy and not get a Certificate because, when it mattered, when you had a crash, and you didn't have a Certificate, hadn't done the training, didn't match the conditions, there wasn't any doubt about who would be paying for the injured.

 

So if the SASAO circulates some videos, and you haven't done any training on the subject, but don't believe they helped you, and the subject matter related to a reasonably forseeable risk, the self administering pilot has the responsibility against that risk, so you need to do something about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jackc]

The wheels or wings or bilge plugs go missing AND you injure or kill somebody,  licence or not….YOU are done like a dinner.  NO licence is a mitigating event to the main problem. 

IF I chose to fly unlicensed, or in an unregistered plane, it would be on a property in the Central West of Qld, even to the point I could trailer it out to a remote road somewhere and fly……that makes the ‘illegality’ of it even more fun!  The big rule would/should be NO passenger(s)  So, you crash and die with either result…..on impact, or the passage of time before found.  YOU the PIC decide your risk factor in this.  You make a big bungle and YOU die?  Will CASA, RAAus fine your estate for your unlicensed flying, what about you insurance for plane? There is none if you had no licence and you are not alive to claim anyway…..so what’s it all matter.

Your family get to grieve, but you are GONE……

Also, how many licences pilots have flown without a current medical they are under?  How many with expired BFR?, expired 100 hourly?, Without correct endorsements?  Snuck through controlled air space?  Flown IMC on VFR flight?    

How would CASA ever know?   They won’t unless they spring you on a ramp check. 

Bigger chance of an RBT in the Simpson Desert?  

[facthunter]

When planes crash there's usually a pilot involved. In a few countries the Pilot goes to goal and it's taken from there... Most other pilot's are quick to assume the pilot concerned did something wrong. SO... Nev 

[jackc]

In crashing anything, some people will do their best to make the Crasher…..a scapegoat. No matter how innocent they could be.  Human nature can be VERY horrible in some cases……

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

The wheels or wings or bilge plugs go missing AND you injure or kill somebody,  licence or not….YOU are done like a dinner.  NO licence is a mitigating event to the main problem. 

IF I chose to fly unlicensed, or in an unregistered plane, it would be on a property in the Central West of Qld, even to the point I could trailer it out to a remote road somewhere and fly……that makes the ‘illegality’ of it even more fun!  The big rule would/should be NO passenger(s)  So, you crash and die with either result…..on impact, or the passage of time before found.  YOU the PIC decide your risk factor in this.  You make a big bungle and YOU die?  Will CASA, RAAus fine your estate for your unlicensed flying, what about you insurance for plane? There is none if you had no licence and you are not alive to claim anyway…..so what’s it all matter.

Your family get to grieve, but you are GONE……

Also, how many licences pilots have flown without a current medical they are under?  How many with expired BFR?, expired 100 hourly?, Without correct endorsements?  Snuck through controlled air space?  Flown IMC on VFR flight?    

How would CASA ever know?   They won’t unless they spring you on a ramp check. 

Bigger chance of an RBT in the Simpson Desert?  

I thought I had clearly separated GA flying from Recreational Flying. The above  comments relate primarily to GA Flying. 

 

In Self Administration sports, when nothing happens, nothing happens, so you can tell the most lurid stories you like and no one cares.

 

When an injury or fatal event occurs the lawyers of the victims/families will be suing for breach of duty of care in a civil court. They have to prove that a duty was owed and was breached. If they prove the case they are awarded suitable damages.

 

It's quite common that a deceased husband hasn't provided for a wife or family so the Court will decide what their needs are into the future. Of these, in a few cases the husband may have taken steps to secrete parts of the estate, and the Court applies penalties/assigns the estate.

 

Much simpler than GA, only applies if there is a breach of duty of care, goes right to the heart of the person responsible.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by turboplanner

[aro]

23 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

I thought I had clearly separated GA flying from Recreational Flying. The above  comments relate primarily to GA Flying.

GA and RAA operate under the same rules, with a few exemptions for RAA under specific conditions. RAA have no power to impose penalties greater than wagging a finger, all they can really do is point out if you are not following the conditions for the exemptions, at which point the CASA rules apply to you and CASA can impose penalties.

 

There is no difference between GA and RAA under common law i.e. negligence.

 

CASA doesn't seem worried about being sued. There are various cases where it would appear to be possible, however suing parts of the government doesn't seem like something lawyers are inclined to do.

[jackc]

Look, you screw up, licence or not in, ANY kind of aircraft and DIE by your own hand?

When your  life is lost, its over. I have NO life  insurance, NO superannuation, NO pension, the first 2 are a big scam anyway.  At my age I have NO fcuks to give.

So, all the goody two shoes people can go live the rest of their unhappy life obeying every last nanny rule until they croak.  Not for me……Adventure has been part of my whole life. 

My wife?  Sadly she looks like passing before but if it’s the reverse I have her covered anyway.   I am a decision maker and planner…….

[turboplanner]

38 minutes ago, aro said:

GA and RAA operate under the same rules, with a few exemptions for RAA under specific conditions.

I agree, however the exemptions didn't become a vaccuum; In the CASA Sport Aviation Self-Administration Handbook 2010 CASA says "these exemptions are conditional", and goes on to list Governance as Compliance, Assurance, Risk Management.

RAA were to "adopt a number of key activities and tools for performance to an SMS.

amd so on.

38 minutes ago, aro said:

RAA have no power to impose penalties greater than wagging a finger, all they can really do is point out if you are not following the conditions for the exemptions.

RAA haven't so far addressed their compliance and enforcement obligations by putting a policy into the Constitution. Plenty of Associations have them, usually in the form of sanctions relating to exercise of membership, e.g. suspensions for certain periods. Natural Justice is usually handled by an Appeals Tribunal. I sat on one for three years.

38 minutes ago, aro said:

, at which point the CASA rules apply to you and CASA can impose penalties.

I was trying to address just the narrow area that JackC was talking about; yes, in RA as soon as you start the engine you are also flying in CASA airspace so are subject to their presecriptive regulations, and CASA can apply penaties.

38 minutes ago, aro said:

There is no difference between GA and RAA under common law i.e. negligence.

I agree, no difference between GA and any of the SASAOs such as hang gliding in the law.

Pilots, Aircraft owners, airstip owners just have to be aware that where CASA exempts them they are self administering and need to insure themselves and practice self risk management.

38 minutes ago, aro said:

CASA doesn't seem worried about being sued. There are various cases where it would appear to be possible, however suing parts of the government doesn't seem like something lawyers are inclined to do.

I agree, but in some areas where CASA offloaded responsibility on to the SASAOs they seem to have taken it back again by dictating what can happen.

[jackc]

Turbs, I take on board what you say…..but the more I learn, I can’t but think the whole system is somewhat broken 😞. Insurance?  You can forget that as Insurance companies dig as deep as the can to deny any claims they can. 

Policies with PDS documents  not understood by many. CASA Riles have a mountain of bandaids stuck one on top of the other!  WHY? because they are too lazy to rewrite anything that will update and simplify the rules. RAAus are guilty of the same…….their attitude is simply, just pay your rego and membership?

Their insurance policy for members? I have been told by those who know……it’s a paddock full of Landmines 😞  RAAus themselves need to get their act together, too.  But, being the little Cupcakes we are…..we just suck it up.

[turboplanner]

24 minutes ago, jackc said:

Turbs, I take on board what you say…..but the more I learn, I can’t but think the whole system is somewhat broken 😞. Insurance?  You can forget that as Insurance companies dig as deep as the can to deny any claims they can. 

Policies with PDS documents  not understood by many. CASA Riles have a mountain of bandaids stuck one on top of the other!  WHY? because they are too lazy to rewrite anything that will update and simplify the rules. RAAus are guilty of the same…….their attitude is simply, just pay your rego and membership?

Their insurance policy for members? I have been told by those who know……it’s a paddock full of Landmines 😞  RAAus themselves need to get their act together, too.  But, being the little Cupcakes we are…..we just suck it up.

Well as I mentioned no one's going to get too interested in all that because it's self-managing.