Apparently midair at Gympie at 3pm today, 9/11/22

[Bosi72]

4 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

The government should instruct CASA to work with Uavionix and fast track approval for the Australian FLARM frequency to be included in a Firmware upgrade. That is far simpler and would be considerably cheaper.

The problem is FLARM protocol is privately owned intellectual property and you have to pay subscription licence to be able to "listen" the data.

 

https://support.foreflight.com/hc/en-us/articles/360050274413-How-do-I-receive-and-display-FLARM-traffic-with-the-SkyEcho-2-

 

This kind of goes against gliding philosophy with low-cost/low-footprint/low-everything..

[jackc]

Fix that…..tell ALL Gliderists to ditch their FLARM boxes and get a Sky Echo while the subsidy is running then everyone ends up with ADS-B.  Mr ‘FLARM’  can go whistle 🙂  

[kgwilson]

9 hours ago, Garfly said:

Sounds like an interesting app.  Definitely worth a look.

But you'd want to have a good look at all the features of the local EFBs first, with their NAIPS integration, their automatic updates of all charts and databases etc. and even their tight integration of the uAvionix ADSB devices, before you decided on what is and isn't a necessary feature for your own operation.

NAIPS integration with Avplan & Ozrunways may toe the official line but it is less accurate in most cases than Windy which uses several forecasting models.

 

GFS (US & fairly basic & not that accurate), ECMWF (UK based & very accurate), ICON (German model fairly good), METOBLUE (Swiss, very accurate in Alpine areas, average elsewhere), ACCESS G3 (BOMs model, OK & where most NAIPs data is sourced). 

 

I compare them and ECMWF is my choice almost all of the time.

[kgwilson]

I don't know the cost of the FLARM licence but they did it for SE2in Europe & Avplan has it so it can't be that expensive.

[Bosi72]

I think it is a bit selfish that Gliding community is interested only in their local traffic. Of course they will know every time when their gliders are in the air and FLARM will tell them that too. However it won't tell them anything about rest of aviation flying ADSB.  

 

I am always extra alerted when crossing  hills towards YLEG, YBSS, Benalla .. but it would be more safer to "see" them in advance..

[Bosi72]

9 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

I don't know the cost of the FLARM licence but they did it for SE2in Europe & Avplan has it so it can't be that expensive.

It is a matter of principles. You can see  basic traffic positions for free on FlightRadar24, FlightAware, etc.. however if you want to see other data then subscribe, which is fair enough.. 

 

With FLARM it is all or nothing.

[Kununurra]

Don’t hold your breath waiting for the government to supply SE devices for free. In my opinion they shouldn’t have to. Our sport like others is a user pay activity. So instead of dreaming about what we would like to happen grab a real dose of reality(no chance of it happening) and if you think that your life or the life of others is worth it then cough up the money.

My condolences to the families & loved ones involved in this tragic event & may the victims of this incident forever R.I.P

[Garfly]

1 hour ago, Kununurra said:

Don’t hold your breath waiting for the government to supply SE devices for free. In my opinion they shouldn’t have to. Our sport like others is a user pay activity. So instead of dreaming about what we would like to happen grab a real dose of reality(no chance of it happening) and if you think that your life or the

I agree.  I bought my SkyEcho2 in mid 2020, as soon as they were on sale.  Before that I had a small 'Ping' ADSB-IN gadget. So I'm definitely more of a believer than a dreamer in the EC device department.  ;- )

 

But, when it comes to public policy, the reason the government might (in fact, does) choose to subsidise GA ADSB uptake is that 'our sport', whilst a user-pays activity, has the rare capability of bringing down an airliner.  And then there'd be hell to pay. In fact, it came to within a bee's dick of just that in Nov. 2020 near Ballina.

  

 https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2020/aair/ao-2020-062

 

Anyway, the feds have at their disposal, both carrot and stick levers and, right now, they're giving the former a bit of a pull. My suggestion earlier in this thread was just that their plan might have worked better if the carrot had been a wee bit bigger, and a bit sooner, but, in any case, I'm not holding my breath for that, and I'm not hanging out for a subsidy.

 

This piece in Australian Flying a year ago puts it in a nutshell: 

 

"The results of CASA's VFR equipment survey has provided the regulator with a view of GA that they never previously had ... But one thing that has raised some eyebrows is the lack of ADS-B use in VFR aircraft. CASA mandated the system for IFR, but has consistently maintained an encouragement policy only for visual flight, culminating in the development of a non-TSO standard for VFR, known as conspicuity devices. But the data shows that around 57% of GA aircraft and a whopping 83% of sport aircraft have declined the invitation to fit any type of ADS-B. ... what it means is that there are a lot of aircraft getting around that the ADS-B system is blind to, which dilutes the efficiency of the technology. It is hard to believe that, after seeing these figures, the word "mandate" has not been uttered between the walls of Aviation House.

 

 

https://www.australianflying.com.au/the-last-minute-hitch/the-last-minute-hitch-1-october-2021

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Garfly

[jackc]

Maybe Electronic Conspicuity Devices need to be……dare I say it?  Mandated?

Drones ADS-B set up and mandated, so they can dodge us?  

Like it or not……it’s coming, one day.

[Garfly]

BTW,  both those ATSB final reports, the Mangalore midair (02/20, AO-2020-012) and the Ballina near miss (12/20, AO-2020-062) came out around the same time, earlier this year.  So I'm guessing there would have been some cross-fertilisation, which leads me to read between these lines (from the Mangalore report, quoted earlier):

 

"The continuous positional information that ADS‑B provides can highlight a developing situation many minutes before it becomes hazardous – a significant improvement on both point‑in‑time radio traffic advice and ‘see‑and‑avoid’. The ATSB also notes that ADS‑B receivers, suitable for use on aircraft operating under both the instrument or visual flight rules, are currently available within Australia at low cost and can be used in aircraft without any additional regulatory approval or expense."

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2020/aair/ao-2020-012

 

I reckon what they're hinting at here is that a $1K EC device (with its continuous positional information) might be a darn sight more useful in Airprox avoidance, OCTA, than a full blown $100K TCAS set up (which, for various reasons, failed to avert the close call at Ballina).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Garfly

[Kyle Communications]

20 hours ago, kgwilson said:

No, only if you have the premium version of Ozrunways which is pretty poor given free Nav systems have the functionality.

Avplan has the ADSB as standard in their standard package

 

[Thruster88]

1 hour ago, Kyle Communications said:

Avplan has the ADSB as standard in their standard package

 

Relies on aircraft sending and receiving mobil data to and from a ground station. ADSB works directly between aircraft with zero latency. It is the only real solution.  

[Garfly]

19 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

Relies on aircraft sending and receiving mobil data to and from a ground station. ADSB works directly between aircraft with zero latency. It is the only real solution.  

T88, I think Mark is referring to KG's earlier post, pointing out that you need to buy OzRWYs Premium in order to have ADSB devices (like SE2) work properly with it.  He's saying that AvPlan does that trick even on the base model.

In any case, I reckon either package represents incredible value for money in the overall scheme of things.

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Garfly

[Blueadventures]

4 minutes ago, Garfly said:

T88, I think Mark is referring to KG's earlier post, pointing out that you need to buy OzRWYs Premium in order to have ADSB devices (like SE2) work properly with it.  He's saying that AvPlan does that trick even on the base model.

In any case, I reckon either package represents incredible value for money in the overall scheme of things.

Must only be an update or 2 away with ozr.

[Garfly]

9 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

Must only be an update or 2 away with ozr.

Do you think?  I just took it as a part of their pricing policy. 

Otherwise, they each seem to do the same things, more or less.

 

 

CLICK FOR FULL REZ:

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Garfly

[Blueadventures]

I reckon it would have to change or subscription renewals may favour the brands that include such in the VFR packages.

[Garfly]

 

23 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

I reckon it would have to change or subscription renewals may favour the brands that include such in the VFR packages.

 

Yeah, at $169 p.a, VFR Premium is about $1 a week more than the base version but I reckon it's worth it for Smart Brief and the Pilot's Touring Guide and being able to run it on 4 devices, quite apart from ADSB hardware integration. 

I haven't compared it feature for feature to the opposition but, tbh, once you know a platform well there's a bit of resistance to starting over again to save a buck.   ;- )

 

 

https://www.ozrunways.com/au/products/plans-and-pricing/

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Garfly

[Blueadventures]

3 minutes ago, Garfly said:

 

 

Yeah, VFR Premium is about $1 a week more than the base version but I reckon it's worth it for Smart Brief and the Pilot's Touring Guide and being able to run it on 4 devices, quite apart from ADSB hardware integration. 

I haven't compared it feature for feature to the opposition but, tbh, once you know a platform well there's a bit of resistance to starting over again to save a buck.   ;- )

 

 

https://www.ozrunways.com/au/products/plans-and-pricing/

Agree my last two renewals have been VFR Premium

[Bosi72]

3 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

Must only be an update or 2 away with ozr.

I don't think they care.. 

 

When I started flying, I initially inclined towards OzR due to pilot friends and some videos where airline pilots using OzR..

 

I installed both OzR and AvP at the same time and gave them a month of trial period to see which one suits me more. They both performed well, had almost the same functionalities, however there was one small thing that annoyed me with OzR: icons of other adsb traffics.

 

They appeared as clouds (they called it  bubbles) in OzR whilst AvP had pointy triangles, which were more intuitive to me. I sent an email to OzR support asking if the icons could be customised, but got response sorry this is it.. 

 

And my lifetime decision was made..

 

 

so far so good..

 

 

 

 

 

[old man emu]

On 10/11/2022 at 12:22 PM, Teckair said:

How does a tug aircraft collide with the glider?

Just because one was a tug and the other a glider, doesn't mean they were hooked up. It could have been tow aircraft approaching to land and one came down on top of the other. How many collisions of this type, involving every type of aircraft, have there been over the years? I do recall a heated discussion in another thread based on similar preliminary cirmustances.

[derekliston]

On 10/11/2022 at 10:38 AM, onetrack said:

A mid-air collision is pilots simply not being aware of other traffic in the area they're flying into. Use every means at your disposal to alert others to your presence, especially as you approach heavily-trafficked areas such as airfields.

I seem to be noticing a big increase in non-radio traffic at the airfield I fly from, which to me is a real worry. I wonder if it could be the recent adoption of the Avdata charging system that is the cause?

[BrendAn]

30 minutes ago, derekliston said:

I seem to be noticing a big increase in non-radio traffic at the airfield I fly from, which to me is a real worry. I wonder if it could be the recent adoption of the Avdata charging system that is the cause?

This is something that I am concerned about. I am only a student pilot but as a student you make all the correct radio calls as instructed but anyone else can fly in and out with complete radio silence because it's not mandatory to use a radio in uncontrolled airspace. Why is it not a legal requirement. Everyone has a radio .

[turboplanner]

3 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Why is it not a legal requirement. Everyone has a radio .

Public Liability removed from Airservices.

[jackc]

29 minutes ago, derekliston said:

I seem to be noticing a big increase in non-radio traffic at the airfield I fly from, which to me is a real worry. I wonder if it could be the recent adoption of the Avdata charging system that is the cause?

Several things come to mind, some people think a radio is a big brown snake, they know where it is but don’t want to touch it UNLESS their aircraft is falling out of the sky.  Next, they are worried about fluffing a call and be made to feel like an idiot, so they stay silent.  They make a call and get confused with other traffic, some one reams them over the radio and that’s a big distraction while flying.   Trouble today is…..hot shot pilots don’t mind berating others if their radio work is not perfect.  It’s like many pilots don’t like their landing being ‘watched’  because all the armchair Top Guns will say , he’s coming in too slow, he flared wrong, he dropped a wing etc etc. All the ‘watchers’ make criticisms of what he should have done. 

BUT the plane never got wrecked 🙂 

[derekliston]

What bothers me is people who say “If I don’t hear any traffic I don’t need to make radio calls!” It doesn’t take a massive amount of imagination to work out what can happen if two or more pilots have the same mindset. I am not for one second suggesting that might have happened at Gympie though!