US air show crash 13/11/2022

[tillmanr]

Channel 9 reporting a B17 and Kingcobra crashing at a Dallas air show. Both aircraft into the dirt. Lots of grief for many people. 

[graham brown]

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/dallas-plane-crash-dallas-executive-airport-rbd/287-1d54f7a6-05ad-40ee-a02b-961874c52bea

Why is it that so many pilots get killed at air shows? 
RIP

[graham brown]

Videos further down in article show the incident.

[derekliston]

So very sad in so many ways! A lot of grieving families and the loss of two irreplaceable aeroplanes!

[turboplanner]

52 minutes ago, graham brown said:

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/dallas-plane-crash-dallas-executive-airport-rbd/287-1d54f7a6-05ad-40ee-a02b-961874c52bea

Why is it that so many pilots get killed at air shows? 
RIP

The answer is in the reverse; it shows that our standard operating procedures are about right to minimise accidents.

For example our standardised circuits give us good line of sight in the straights and four turns when we re-orientate and can see those who either have or are about to re-orientate.

 

This accident shows that if you just peel off into a steep turn in a busy pattern, even a B17 can be blanked out underneath you.

 

 

[bull]

https://avgeekery.com/b-17-and-p-63-crash-in-dallas-after-horrific-mid-air-collision/

 

[Old Koreelah]

A huge proportion of aircrew deaths during WWII happened in training accidents. As Turbs said, it’s easy for even a big plane to be obscured under you during a turn. More than one Spitfire collided with allied aircraft they couldn’t see under their long, flat nose.

[Bennyboy320]

Very sad, the first thing you’re taught when learning to do a rejoin is you ALWAYS put the a/c you’re joining on above the horizon in case you misjudge the rejoin to avoid a collision. 

[onetrack]

What a tragic and totally avoidable waste of lives and irreplaceable aircraft! At the rate the Americans destroy their warbirds, how long before none are left in flyable condition?

 

A sky chock-a-block full of people showing off at close quarters, and at constantly varying altitudes, what could possibly go wrong?

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by onetrack

[Old Koreelah]

I realise their airshows often include impressive pyrotecnics, but most of us still have some grip on What’s real and what isn’t.

I was disturbed to hear, after that horricic crash, a voice ask “was that supposed to happen?”

[facthunter]

They would probably sell more tickets if that was the case.. There are plenty who go to see "crashes" at other events.. I've never been one of them.

  A certain  lack of discipline is evident when these things happen. I've never been a believer in the "BIG SKY" theory especially when we navigate more precisely using GPS where people are more accurately ON TRACK... Nev

[rgmwa]

1 hour ago, Old Koreelah said:

I realise their airshows often include impressive pyrotecnics, but most of us still have some grip on What’s real and what isn’t.

I was disturbed to hear, after that horricic crash, a voice ask “was that supposed to happen?”

That sounded to me more like a shocked young kid looking for some reassurance that everything was OK.  There were probably enough adults momentarily asking themselves same thing.

[440032]

 

 

[Garfly]

 

Juan Browne's take:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7OZf0NnHLU

 

[facthunter]

Getting a bit Ghoulish  seeing it over and over. If the turn had been tightened a bit they may have just missed. A Control tower would have prevented that sort of thing... Nev

[Garfly]

Just now, facthunter said:

Getting a bit Ghoulish  seeing it over and over. 

Which is probably why Juan Browne declined to show it.

[facthunter]

It might have been justified to show a frame by frame near the point of contact so I persisted "Hoping". but NO..  Nev

[Blueadventures]

I hope the join at that location was in the pre flight formation briefing and it is a tragic accident, rather than an unplanned / unexpected formation join.

[facthunter]

 Why the high circuit speed for the King cobra?  Nev

[onetrack]

There's at least 10 questions got to be answered here, and the very first has to be - what happened re separation rules? Even if the King Cobra had had a near miss with the B-17, what about wake separation?

Seems to me like cowboys ruled here, and I'll wager the inquiry will find similar major safety shortcomings, as in the 2019 B-17 crash at Windsor Locks, Connecticut. 

The lawyers are going to have a field day again, and I wouldn't want to be one of the organisers or operators at this airshow. At the end of the day, I suppose all the blame will try to be placed on one dead rogue pilot.

 

https://www.journalinquirer.com/connecticut_and_region/new-lawsuit-filed-in-vintage-plane-crash-that-killed-7-at-bradley/article_97f17b40-d03e-11eb-9cd8-37cc9948d60b.html

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

 Why the high circuit speed for the King cobra?  Nev

Sometimes there is a "battle" sequence.

Tyabb's Air Show usually has one as a main event with the Yak 9, several Mustangs, Kittyhawk, scale Mustang(s), having an all in dogfight and "attacking" ground targets with suitable bangs and flames.

The sky is fiilled with aircraft making repeated attacks from all directions.

I suspect the Tyabb show is fully choriographed and practiced before the event.

[Thruster88]

I would not be blaming either pilot at this stage, we don't know what if any plan was in place for the fly by. There were at least three single engine aircraft in a loose trail formation in addition to the b17.

[Garfly]

 

This young chap does a pretty good job of gathering what's knowable at this point:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf3fZx8yntw

 

[onetrack]

What a lot of BS from the young bloke. If you fly a warplane with poor external visibility in a crowded air environment, the duty and responsibility is on the pilot of that aircraft to "keep a proper lookout".

That means ensuring you know what's in your blind spots, or approaching your blind spots. To say he was only concentrating on his flight leader to his left, is total dereliction of his duty to take into account other aircrafts positions.

He didn't own that portion of sky exclusively, and he wasn't up there alone, and he wasn't in a combat situation. He had a duty of care to ensure he didn't kill innocent parties, and he failed miserably on that angle.

[Blueadventures]

One constant to some extent would be the track for the formations parallel to the crowd line standing back away from the track and this is the area of air the aircraft would be merging around for aspects of the display.