Anything Handle Like a Warrior II

[peterg]

12 hours ago, facthunter said:

You still have to fly the thing and if you are too fast you will float  further unless you drive it on which explains WHY so many wheelbarrowing events happened at that time. (and since). Nev

Not so sure about the wheelbarrowing -  the PA-28 had a secret weapon which could be used when near the desired touch-down point - the "handbrake"/extra flap - very good for spot landings and, for me, a very easy aircraft to land well most of the time.

 

[RFguy]

alas, you wont get a plane in < 600kg  gross category, that wants to land around 45 kts , feeling like a plane that grosses at 1090kg and wants to land at about 50 kts.

 

[skippydiesel]

As with all these sorts of discussions, where individual perceptions/comfort zone/habit, are the main factors in the decision making, it comes down to just that, personal reference.

 

When I moved out of GA to RA class, I found it quit challenging (needed all of the 5 hrs plus plus) but now I am here, I would not go back (except for tail wheel training/endorsement, that is not available, in my area, from RA ) - there is so much more "feel" in flying light aircraft  and  the cost bears no comparison.

[facthunter]

The type of stability they must have for certification (non divergent)is different to the self righting kind which CAN be a disadvantage for control in gusts where something more neutral is best (Stays where you put it) High roll rates can  promote overcontrolling in some pilots..Nev

[Yenn]

The question was is there a RAAus type aircraft like the Warrior. It seems that the answer is NO. Which doesn't surprise me. There would probably be experimentals similar in handling, but I haven't met any of them.

[rodgerc]

The venerable Warrior II 160HP has a wing loading around 13.7lbs/sqft and weight to power of 14.5lbs/HP. On a good day she’ll climb at about 600-700fpm, cruise at ~115kts and stall around 44kts. 
 

A 600kg MTOW Sling 2 has a somewhat lower wing loading at around 10.4lbs/sqft and a better weight to power of 13.2lbs/HP when fitted with a bog standard 912ULS. It climbs at 700fpm, cruises about the same or better than the Warrior and stalls at about 40kts. (The 700kg Group G RA-Aus registered Sling 2 will bring the wing loading closer the the Warrior at 12.1lbs/sqft when that becomes a reality)

 

Both aircraft are low-wing and tricycle undercarriage but significantly, the Warrior will set you back $95/hr in Avgas versus $40/hr for RON95 ULP in the Sling….and if you’re capable of building a Sling 2 kit you’ll save an extra thousand or two each year by performing your own annuals. 
 

The Sling 2 seems a pretty good fit for a Warrior 2 nostalgic. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by rodgerc
Our should have been Own

[pmccarthy]

With full flap, my Foxbat stiffens up and feels like my Archer. It really feels like it has inertia and stability, like a different aeroplane.

[kevinblack]

On 24/11/2022 at 7:07 PM, rodgerc said:

The Sling 2 seems a pretty good fit for a Warrior 2 nostalgic. 

I'll have to remember that😳

[facthunter]

I don't know what all the fuss about the Archer is. They are all just another aeroplane but if you have FLAPERONS that's a different thing again. Ask people who flew Caribous.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

"...................the Warrior will set you back $95/hr in Avgas versus $40/hr for RON95 ULP in the Sling"

 

Wow! that's one thirsty (20L/h) Rotax 912 ULS (or is it a 914?) in the the Sling. My 912ULS cruised at 100 + kn for 13L/h  & 120 kn for 18L/h. My new one (yet to fly) I hope to do 130 kn for 16L/h

[kgwilson]

In my GA days I flew mainly C172s (M,N P models) and lastly the S variant with a 180hp IO360 engine, and also Piper Cherokee Archer 2 & 3 PA28-181 180 HP carburettor variants.

 

Both had good and bad points.

 

C172 good points - easy to get in & out of, no requirement to change fuel tanks, 40 deg of flap on the early models.

C172 bad points - heavy controls, Upright kitchen chair style pilot seating, slow electric flaps, quite noisy. PITA to refuel

 

PA28-181 good points - comfortable seating, nicer lighter controls (quadrant) easy x wind landing/ground effect, easy to refuel & check fuel, good comfortable tourer, more grunt, quieter.

PA28-181 bad points - Single door on RH side for access, having to remember to change fuel tanks.

 

Overall I preferred the Archer despite changing tanks every 1/2 hour & getting in and out of it. That most likely influenced my choice of a low wing RA aircraft to build. My Sierra handles X winds very well compared to the Jabirus, Gazelles and Foxbats I've flown.

[facthunter]

The Gazelle will handle x winds if you are game.  It's the easiest plane to fly I can recall.  Nev

[rodgerc]

9 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

"...................the Warrior will set you back $95/hr in Avgas versus $40/hr for RON95 ULP in the Sling"

 

Wow! that's one thirsty (20L/h) Rotax 912 ULS (or is it a 914?) in the the Sling. My 912ULS cruised at 100 + kn for 13L/h  & 120 kn for 18L/h. My new one (yet to fly) I hope to do 130 kn for 16L/h

My Warrior and Sling numbers are pretty rough but not out by anything like an order of magnitude.

Based on Rotax’s published data and using a RON 95 ULP specific gravity of 0.72, 285g/kWh converts to ~0.297L/h/HP

i.e. 20L/h approximates 67HP.....

similarly 18L/h ~61HP, 16L/h ~54HP and 13L/h ~44HP. 
 

IFF Rotax’s data is reliable and your 130kt @ 16L/h expectations are realised, you’ll have built a very slippery airframe. 

 

[RFguy]

Kevin

 

The LSA airplane I have liked most so far is the Aeroprakt A32 Vixxen. that is quite an impressive airplane. lands in the low 30s, heaps of rudder autho,  106 kts indicated at 18 lph , climbs like a scalded cat (for its category) .  5 hours of endurance and heaps of load capacity.  That would be the plane I would buy if I had some coin.

Edited November 26, 2022 by RFguy

[Blueadventures]

2 hours ago, RFguy said:

Kevin

 

The LSA airplane I have liked most so far is the Aeroprakt A32 Vixxen. that is quite an impressive airplane. lands in the low 30s, heaps of rudder autho,  106 kts indicated at 18 lph , climbs like a scalded cat (for its category) .  5 hours of endurance and heaps of load capacity.  That would be the plane I would buy if I had some coin.

A friend has just recently bought one but I reckon the better allrounder for outback off field operations is the 22 as shorter TO and landing distances

[RFguy]

yeah. it's cruise speed is down though. the Vixxen can walk AND chew gum.

[pmccarthy]

I have an A22 and am about to take delivery of a new A32. It will do everything that I need. Decent cruise speed, autopilot, low stall speed. As an ex GA pilot, the thing I like most is knowing you can put these down in a very tight spot if needed.

[Blueadventures]

4 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

I have an A22 and am about to take delivery of a new A32. It will do everything that I need. Decent cruise speed, autopilot, low stall speed. As an ex GA pilot, the thing I like most is knowing you can put these down in a very tight spot if needed.

Nice,  I haven't flown in a 32 (maybe some time in future).  Did like my flights as PIC in a 22  a few years back (similarish to my Nynja and both are a great choice).  My earlier comment was based on the stated factory performance figures and comparing the distances with both the 32, 22, Nynja and Jab 230 for short strip operations that I know we have in our area as shorthest is 250 meters and Nynja two up has plenty of excess length left after takeoffn so 22 good but not sure about 32 or J230 with trees etc at end.  I do look forward to viewing my friends 32; I will be doing its condition report in next couple of weeks when it arrives at his home field.  Cheers.

[Blueadventures]

1 hour ago, RFguy said:

yeah. it's cruise speed is down though. the Vixxen can walk AND chew gum.

Only major difference between the 2 and speed is not always necessary if require best available t/o and landing performance for short air strips.  Just what I need.

[skippydiesel]

6 hours ago, RFguy said:

Kevin

 

The LSA airplane I have liked most so far is the Aeroprakt A32 Vixxen. that is quite an impressive airplane. lands in the low 30s, heaps of rudder autho,  106 kts indicated at 18 lph , climbs like a scalded cat (for its category) .  5 hours of endurance and heaps of load capacity.  That would be the plane I would buy if I had some coin.

Surly you jest - abysmal X country performance  - 106 knots/18L/hr are not good cruise figures - for similar $$ you can get a number of aircraft that will cruise, at the same fuel flow, at upwards of 125 knots and still have a stall in the low 30, even high 20's.

 

Sure they want have quit as short a TO/landing but sub 100 m TO ground role on grass is still pretty good and once up, you will go places at way better econamy & comfort plus you wont have to replace the fabric a few short years "down the track".

Edited November 27, 2022 by skippydiesel

[Blueadventures]

23 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Surly you jest - abysmal X country performance  - 106 knots/18L/hr are not good cruise figures - for similar $$ you can get a number of aircraft that will cruise, at the same fuel flow, at upwards of 125 knots and still have a stall in the low 30, even high 20's.

 

Sure they want have quit as short a TO/landing but sub 100 m TO ground role on grass is still pretty good and once up, you will go places at way better econamy & comfort plus you wont have to replace the fabric a few short years "down the track".

I think comment is bit unfair.  They are an excellent touring aircraft considering performance, cockpit comfort, cargo capacity etc.  For info what will your new aircraft be?  similar to usual MTOW500kg empty weigh of about 280kg.   Fuel usage is always about the 20 l/hr for the design shape.  Mine is similar and I would not get a tighter fit aircraft for faster and better fuel economy ship.  To me it's just about enjoying the flight and sharing the experience.  I appreciate other aircraft and their respective condition and don't point out faults as I see ones that don't suit my choice of aircraft.

[RFguy]

that's crap skippy, 18 lph with 106 kias indicated is excellent.  I dont know any other plane that will make that and land slow. AND carry 100 litres of fuel AND two people  and 25kg bags, comfortable cabin width etc.

 

SKippy, please list the airplane you speak of, and its useable load, endurance, cabin width  etc

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by RFguy

[jackc]

Everyone has an opinion, I did 18 hours training in a Vixxen,  did not like yoke and throttle low on centre.  it did not feel right for me using yoke left hand. I did not really think I could gel with that aircraft.

Fast forward 3 years of no training, get in my ‘Super Bin Chicken”  J-230 last week and……simply flew it well.  Instructor worked me over with a training assessment and he was very happy.  Felt very comfortable with centre stick and throttle on left of instrument panel. Maybe a Vixxen with the same setup would have been better for me?

[RFguy]

I've only flown the centre Y stick Vixxen. comfortable. 

 

[pmccarthy]

I had a FS Texan some years ago and enjoyed it too. Reasonable cruise and short field performance. They seem to have gone out of fashion, haven’t seen a new one for a while. Would still suit me but SWMBO doesn’t like stepping up on a wing any more.