Lithium batteries and non insurance cover

[Blueadventures]

I heard from a friend that caravans and soon boats will only be covered by insurance if there fitting is supported by an approved installation certificate.  This will no doubt affect aircraft that are retro fitted with a lithium battery. Likely due to the increased fires.

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Blueadventures

[ClintonB]

If you get further info to the source of this I would be interested. Nothing has come through any source at work as yet, but this stuff affects what I do for a living. Most people don’t realise that the cheap diesel heaters for caravans out there are uncertified and if investigated and found to be the cause of a loss would void insurance. Certification costs money which in turn gets passed on in price of unit. EBay sites just shut down and start again when they have problems.

[onetrack]

There has been a doubling in the number of house fires and other domestic-type fires, caused by Lithium-ion batteries here on the Left Coast, over the last 4 years - and it is following a trend that is similar in other States.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-17/qld-lithium-ion-battery-fires-risk/101428618

 

The batteries causing the problems are the cheaper Li-ion batteries, as used in scooters, power tools, laptops, phones, tablets, and even torches and shavers.

 

The fires appear to be mostly related to overcharging, or faulty chargers, or just faulty batteries. There have been fires caused by cheap Li-ion batteries just sitting around unused, simply exploding into flames.

 

The Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are much safer, as regards thermal runaway and fire risk, and have been proven to be far less likely to burst into flame, unlike the cheaper domestic Lithium Ion batteries.

The biggest single risk is leaving Li-ion batteries on charge completely unattended - or worse, when people are sleeping. I don't trust any little Chinese charger or cheap Li-ion battery, they're not left on charge when I'm not around.

 

The various Fire Authorities are likely to be the ones driving the changes, they get to see the devastating results, and they like to find solutions.

 

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/McGowan/2022/07/Lithium-ion-battery-fires-spark-winter-home-safety-plea.aspx

 

https://thewest.com.au/news/disaster-and-emergency/lithium-ion-battery-fires-exploding-battery-fires-the-new-home-fire-menace--c-7032328

[Blueadventures]

54 minutes ago, ClintonB said:

If you get further info to the source of this I would be interested. Nothing has come through any source at work as yet, but this stuff affects what I do for a living. Most people don’t realise that the cheap diesel heaters for caravans out there are uncertified and if investigated and found to be the cause of a loss would void insurance. Certification costs money which in turn gets passed on in price of unit. EBay sites just shut down and start again when they have problems.

I’ll chase up next week when I see him next.

[walrus]

You need to use an approved lithium battery. Rotax has guidance on this matter. There is an Earthx range specifically for experimental aircraft fitted with Rotax engines.

 

I've attended one house fire started by a newly installed battery. The house was a total loss. The battery model was recalled. You need a solar accredited sparky to do the installation as well.

[skippydiesel]

My Earth X let me down this morning - supposed to be the girls first (test) flight - such is life.

[Thruster88]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

My Earth X let me down this morning - supposed to be the girls first (test) flight - such is life.

A good operator never blames his tools, or battery. We need more information.  

[skippydiesel]

Who knows - Master /Alt not on last start? Switch left on since last start? Whatever the issue,should be nearly recharged by now - will take multi meter to airfield to see if there is any stray amps around.

[Blueadventures]

28 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Who knows - Master /Alt not on last start? Switch left on since last start? Whatever the issue,should be nearly recharged by now - will take multi meter to airfield to see if there is any stray amps around.

What volts were in battery; best to recheck electrical wire circuits.  I had no voltage at my first test flight; reason faulty isolation switch.  

[walrus]

Skip, RTFM. There is a special charger for Earthx and a special reset procedure for the BMS because it “locks up “ to protect the battery. Page 34 refers……. But you already know this I’m sure.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by walrus

[skippydiesel]

Thanks Blue & Walrus -  Battery back up to speed after chargingayy day  (with special Earth X recommended charger)  Went for a taxi -  5 amp discharge while engine running. This is new. All previous engine runs positive charge. Investigation starts today

[Blueadventures]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Thanks Blue & Walrus -  Battery back up to speed after chargingayy day  (with special Earth X recommended charger)  Went for a taxi -  5 amp discharge while engine running. This is new. All previous engine runs positive charge. Investigation starts today

Yep, being new and an unknown fault occurs it's time to stop and re check everything.  For mine we decided to bypass Isolation switch for flight.  (Me as builder and my test pilot). Then I purchased another isolation switch later that day.   (If the faulty one was not in warranty as it was brand new I would have pulled it apart to identify the fault.)

[walrus]

Alternator issues perhaps? What sort of engine?

[skippydiesel]

So did an engine run up/taxi test this afternoon - all went well until bringing the hot engine back to idle - Dynon showed a -7 amp discharge.

 

Turns out that just about what the thermostatically controlled fan draws, when coolant temperatures hit 95C. When fan stopped, amps went to +3 at engine idle.

 

Problem solved its the fan (not the prop)- panic over (for now)

[Bruce Tuncks]

I dunno it your fan is a problem skippy. It is supposed to draw about 10 amps. If it hardly ever turns on, you are ok otherwise I reckon you need  more powerful alternator.

[RFguy]

what's the thermofan  fan for ? airplanes generate plenty of airflow and pressure... rotax is happy for much higher temps than that. 

and if you let it get hotter, cooling effectiveness improves enormously (higher Tdiff) . IMO the airplane should have enough cowling airflow stationary at engine idle  to deal with any heat it makes.

[facthunter]

A few don't if you are facing downwind.   Nev

[skippydiesel]

Custom cowling - have not painted it yet (work in  progress) but think the last modification - installation of cowl flap - has probably brought the ground operating  temperatures under control. Thermostatic controlled  fan kicks in at 95C & out at 85C  Current max coolant temperature (taxying after fast ground run), 105C (was going over 120c)  - which is OK. The thermo fan should never operate while aircraft in the air only during ground ops.

Edited November 29, 2022 by skippydiesel

[RFguy]

105C and 20 deg ambient ?. hmmm might be hot on a hot day.  but all planes have similar issues. 

[facthunter]

Usually not on planes with cowl gills operated properly It's a bit much to expect a plane engine to be happy at the wide variety of conditions it encounters without some significant adjustment being available.  Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

I like the idea of a cowl-flap skippy. I hope it works and we get to see a diagram of what you did.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I like the idea of a cowl-flap skippy. I hope it works and we get to see a diagram of what you did.

This is the prototype  (fixed) cowl flap and the addition of an oil cooler snout - this set up brought temps right down:

 

You can just see the latest , retractable, cowl flap in this shot - will have to take a better view and sent in the next day or so.

[skippydiesel]

Better pis of cowl flap - painting will be done after successful test flying.