Pi**ed Off - myGov ID and DIRECTORS ID vs ASIC for Airports - Why are we sheep to the Government?

[Bruce Tuncks]

"The price of liberty is eternal vigilance" is what we have forgotten. There are dark forces out there which would change us into another Russia if we let them.

We already have a lot of our wealth in the hands of oligarchs and we are daily giving more power to police for the illusion of safety, not realizing that it is excessive police powers we should be scared of.

 

[Student Pilot]

I think we have as much to be feared from the US as Russia. Expecting Oz the follow their lead with actions, sanctions and policies then first in to take our markets after. 

 

Overzealous bureaucrats, incompetent regulators and entrenched "we know better than you" attitude from the powers that be seem to be more the problem than some sinister plot to take freedoms away. GA is just a shadow of it's former self, the ASIC is partly to blame along with privatisation of public airfields, councils milking/extorting, price of avgas, CASA's detrimental intrusion into every crevasse, every minor detail of aviation are all to blame for the demise of GA. 

 

All these combined have made GA out of reach to the average man. To fly GA you have to now have more than a considerable income to participate. RAA seems to be resisting the forces so far....

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Student Pilot
Brainfart

[skippydiesel]

On 02/12/2022 at 9:31 PM, walrus said:

Skip, I say again, the ASIC is part of a living, ongoing, counter terror strategy. That is why it requires updating every two years. It’s not about 9/11 or yesterdays threats. it’s for the next one, whatever and whenever that may be. It’s superfluous now but  one day it may be your only way of entering an airport. This much was indicated. I know nothing else about counter terror.

So if "ASIC is part of a living, ongoing, counter terror strategy" and I have no doubt that it is - it just happens to be a failed strategy, for all the aforementioned reasons, why then doe it not apply to non RPT airfields.

I spent the most part of this day, at a very busy, non ASIC, airfield, within spitting distance of Sydney,  that had  a plethora of aircraft,  from hot air balloons, gliders,  fixed wing single seat experimental, jet trainers, twine turbine (12 seats?) Blackhawk choppers and others not known to me. Not a security guard in site and the public (there in droves looking for " joy" flights) were all very well behaved - where are all the terrorists lone long time passing ? (

)

[turboplanner]

20 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

So if "ASIC is part of a living, ongoing, counter terror strategy" and I have no doubt that it is - it just happens to be a failed strategy, for all the aforementioned reasons, why then doe it not apply to non RPT airfields.

I spent the most part of this day, at a very busy, non ASIC, airfield, within spitting distance of Sydney,  that had  a plethora of aircraft,  from hot air balloons, gliders,  fixed wing single seat experimental, jet trainers, twine turbine (12 seats?) Blackhawk choppers and others not known to me. Not a security guard in site and the public (there in droves looking for " joy" flights) were all very well behaved - where are all the terrorists lone long time passing ? (

Skippy we brought an alleged one home to us from Syria today.

He was allegedly trained in a bookshop in Springvale which allegedly radicalised many.

Did you check to find out if the airfield was exempt? I can understand your feelings, but so far, as far as I am aware no one including the OP has contacted his local Federal MP to raise the issue and if no one is motivated enough to make the effort it's a dead issue.

[aro]

Any counter terror strategy that relies on people submitting their details voluntarily is pretty lame. I'm sure there are more stringent checks being done without our knowledge on student pilot applications etc. If a terrorist did apply for an ASIC they may well let it through to avoid tipping them off that they were being monitored.

 

The problem is no-one wants to be the one to explain that the ASIC wouldn't have made any difference, if they scrapped it and someone did bounce a Jabiru off a building - even though it's probably true. So I think we are stuck with it.

 

Authorities are realizing that the major terror threat now is right wing white supremacists etc. anyway. They seem more interested in direct threats with guns than using aircraft.

[old man emu]

While driving around Sydney on a recent trip there, I noticed a lot of people undergoing heavy vehicle driving courses. I noticed that most of the student drivers were not of the Caucasian nor Asiatic physiognomy. Most seemed to have roots in placed short distances between the two.

 

Several years ago, around Christmas if I recall, a terrorist drove a heavy vehicle through a crowded pedestrian mall in a European town. It makes me wonder if our Federal counter-terrorism organisations will soon require an ASIC card for those holding a State-issued heavy vehicle driver's licence.

 

Or has my Maths failed me and I've gone 1 + 1 = 3?

[aro]

Driving vehicles into crowds is definitely something that authorities are worried about. But I'm not sure why you single out "drivers ... not of the Caucasian nor Asiatic physiognomy". This has been enthusiastically adopted by the white supremacist groups in the USA.

 

There were over 100 incidents where people drove vehicles into Black Lives Matter protests. Terrorism is defined as violence or threats of violence for a political cause, so these definitely qualify as terrorism. For some reason though charges are rare.

[old man emu]

4 minutes ago, aro said:

But I'm not sure why you single out

It was just an example that came readily to mind.

[turboplanner]

32 minutes ago, old man emu said:

While driving around Sydney on a recent trip there, I noticed a lot of people undergoing heavy vehicle driving courses. I noticed that most of the student drivers were not of the Caucasian nor Asiatic physiognomy. Most seemed to have roots in placed short distances between the two.

 

Several years ago, around Christmas if I recall, a terrorist drove a heavy vehicle through a crowded pedestrian mall in a European town. It makes me wonder if our Federal counter-terrorism organisations will soon require an ASIC card for those holding a State-issued heavy vehicle driver's licence.

 

Or has my Maths failed me and I've gone 1 + 1 = 3?

Given that it appears all but a handful of the 10,000 RAA members are going about their flying with an ASIC card when they need it, it probably isn't a good thing to talk on a searchable medium about potential threats, but in answer to your question, I can tell you there's nothing heavy vehicle drivers haven't already tried but the potential harvest is too low.

 

I could tell you privately though about the day the Federal Police Sergeant walked into the office and asked if I could identify a white truck;a fascinating conversation.

 

 

[aro]

24 minutes ago, old man emu said:

It was just an example that came readily to mind.

We know the reason, but perhaps you should ask yourself why you assume non-white people are more of a terrorist threat?

[turboplanner]

Just now, aro said:

We know the reason, but perhaps you should ask yourself why you assume non-white people are more of a terrorist threat?

He is not talking about a skin colour, but a trend in the transport industry which is of concern

[aro]

What does "drivers ... not of the Caucasian nor Asiatic physiognomy" mean?

[turboplanner]

15 minutes ago, aro said:

What does "drivers ... not of the Caucasian nor Asiatic physiognomy" mean?

Just that

[skippydiesel]

I spent much of my youth in a country where pink skinned terrorist killed each other and innocent bystanders, on a weekly basis and exported their activates to at least one, if not two other countries.

 

Pigmentation has nothing to do with terrorism  - just ask Mr Putin. 

[aro]

Physiognomy is the judgement of a persons character from their appearance.

 

So you are saying that people of non-caucasian, non-asian appearance have some character flaw (based purely on their appearance!) that means we should be concerned when they learn to drive trucks?

 

OK... at least we know where you are coming from.

[turboplanner]

8 minutes ago, aro said:

Physiognomy is the judgement of a persons character from their appearance.

 

So you are saying that people of non-caucasian, non-asian appearance have some character flaw (based purely on their appearance!) that means we should be concerned when they learn to drive trucks?

 

OK... at least we know where you are coming from.

No, you don't

[aro]

3 hours ago, turboplanner said:

4 hours ago, aro said:

What does "drivers ... not of the Caucasian nor Asiatic physiognomy" mean?

Just that

 

4 hours ago, turboplanner said:

a trend in the transport industry which is of concern

 

Do you have any other explanation for these posts? There's a clear conclusion I would draw.

[old man emu]

Aro, I'm sorry that I've obviously upset you. 

 

I am not deriding any properly trained and officially licensed person to be capable of lawfully engaging in the occupation of transport vehicle driver. We are presently being regularly told of the actions taken by certain persons of Semitic appearance against persons often of Caucasian appearance, but sometimes against other Semitic-looking people. 

 

How does one tell if a person learning to drive a heavy vehicle is a refugee from some war-torn country who constantly thanks a spiritual guide for the good fortune to have found a place of safety, or if the person harbors an intense hatred all who do not hold the beliefs of his spiritual guide? 

 

I can see this discussion of what I wrote turning well and truly sour. So, if we can agree on two things, let them be that I will shut up and you will let me.

[aro]

14 minutes ago, old man emu said:

We are presently being regularly told of the actions taken by certain persons of Semitic appearance against persons often of Caucasian appearance

I don't know who is telling you that.

 

In fact the security services currently say the largest threat at the moment is right wing white men who hold grudges against people who are non-white, LGBTIQ, "elites", politically left etc.

 

There are regular attacks that would be considered terrorist actions, except that we have been conditioned to believe that white people cannot be terrorists.

 

[onetrack]

I can remember a story from around 25 years ago about a businessman who was badly wronged by a banking institution, by an uncaring, greedy and unwarranted bank foreclosure that destroyed his business and a lifetime of asset-building.

He said he became so embittered by the experience he planned to fly a light aircraft into the building the bank was headquartered in, to ensure he killed all the senior management people in that bank.

He said the only thing that stopped him was, (A) - he couldn't be sure he would kill all the exact people he wanted to kill - and (B) - he finally realised the evil in his planning, and came to his senses.

 

I have been in the same dark place as this bloke with equivalent bank treatment that destroyed my lifes work and asset-building. I can also remember wanting to kill those who wronged me, but I also finally came to my senses and realised that nothing is achieved by killing those who have generated great hatred.

However, there are still plenty of people out there harbouring great hatred and wanting to cause great destruction, to right some perceived wrong - be it imaginary or real - or even a hatred-inspiring event going back decades. And those people can be any skin colour or racial origin. 

[facthunter]

Go back to the Plane that was flown into the Connair (Connellan) Office at Alice Springs.. It's better done in a top line  Thompson  CSF simulator at your home airport. . Nev

[jackc]

On 4/12/2022 at 9:08 AM, Student Pilot said:

I think we have as much to be feared from the US as Russia. Expecting Oz the follow their lead with actions, sanctions and policies then first in to take our markets after. 

 

Overzealous bureaucrats, incompetent regulators and entrenched "we know better than you" attitude from the powers that be seem to be more the problem than some sinister plot to take freedoms away. GA is just a shadow of it's former self, the ASIC is partly to blame along with privatisation of public airfields, councils milking/extorting, price of avgas, CASA's detrimental intrusion into every crevasse, every minor detail of aviation are all to blame for the demise of GA. 

 

All these combined have made GA out of reach to the average man. To fly GA you have to now have more than a considerable income to participate. RAA seems to be resisting the forces so far....

 

RAAus is now upwards of $300 per hour for training, plus surcharges etc.

[jackc]

21 hours ago, facthunter said:

Go back to the Plane that was flown into the Connair (Connellan) Office at Alice Springs.. It's better done in a top line  Thompson  CSF simulator at your home airport. . Nev

Be VERY aware of a revengeful person who has just received a terminal disease diagnosis with a short TTR. Also bear  in mind that same person has NOTHING to lose in their existing life, except that  life itself. 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I used to find it amazing that old guys were not more active as hit men. But now I'm old, I see that inside yourself, you are just the same as ever and so just as scared of dying...  its stupid I know.

Getting back to over-governance, I find myself reluctantly agreeing with turbs.  We need to go with a thought-out plan to the right pollies to show them how to save money and appear to be just as tough on terrorists. 

Personally, I would think that taking these people back from Syria was a great chance to do a deal that they could be allowed back if they dispensed with the face-covering stuff and other signs that they would never integrate. Alas, they find it easier to pick on us poor pilots... If only, think I, those 9/11 guys had used trucks instead of planes.

[aro]

Can we please try to dial back the racism on this site?

 

The thing I hate most about aviation - so many people are racist at a level I don't see in any other group I spend time with.