Another accident (Bristell?) near Muswellbrook 3/12/22

[BrendAn]

56 minutes ago, RFguy said:

I have never seen roos on haul roads on any of those sort of mines.  Maybe it's just where I go. 

 

nevertheless, a good effort by the pilot  to get it onto  some unoccupied ground . 

We had to write how many roo,s we had run over at the end of each shift.

Edited December 8, 2022 by BrendAn

[facthunter]

You run over the ones that DON'T shift.  With sealed roads the roos go for the lush grass at the edge of the tarred bit where water runoff makes it greener. Nev

[pmccarthy]

I think it was a quarry, not a mine. Kangaroos can tell the difference. 😀

[Thruster88]

They have kangaroos in Canberra so they can't be that fussy.😂

[onetrack]

If it was a quarry road, that kind of explains things more clearly. Not many kangaroos hang around the edges of our minesite haul roads in W.A., because the miners use highly saline water to water down the haul roads.

Fresh water is too scarce in W.A. to waste it on watering roads.

However, roos will rest in the scrub away from most roads, but then promptly decide to make a dash for the other side, when they hear something coming.

It wouldn't be the first time an aircraft has clobbered a 'roo - even on a proper runway. I seem to recall more than one RFDS aircraft has clobbered a 'roo, and one at Blackwater did a lot of damage.

[BrendAn]

5 hours ago, onetrack said:

If it was a quarry road, that kind of explains things more clearly. Not many kangaroos hang around the edges of our minesite haul roads in W.A., because the miners use highly saline water to water down the haul roads.

Fresh water is too scarce in W.A. to waste it on watering roads.

However, roos will rest in the scrub away from most roads, but then promptly decide to make a dash for the other side, when they hear something coming.

It wouldn't be the first time an aircraft has clobbered a 'roo - even on a proper runway. I seem to recall more than one RFDS aircraft has clobbered a 'roo, and one at Blackwater did a lot of damage.

I. All the roos on the haul roads at Boddington,  ,daveyhurst,  chalice ,  Linas find , tarmoola and some I have probably forgotten must have been in my imagination. Definitely no shortage of roos. Not as bad as the woody woody run though, a dozen or more cows get cleaned up every night.

Edited December 9, 2022 by BrendAn

[BrendAn]

Been driving for 5 hrs. Seen 1 roo near Corowa . The ducks must have scared them off. No shortage of water up here. Jabiru is cruising at 50 knts

[Thruster88]

We should not be distracted by the kangaroos, the real story is what happened to the propeller.  

[BrendAn]

22 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

We should not be distracted by the kangaroos, the real story is what happened to the propeller.  

True . Sorry about that.  Do you think his prop came loose or fractured causing the vibration.

[Thruster88]

19 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

True . Sorry about that.  Do you think his prop came loose or fractured causing the vibration.

That would seem the most likely scenario. It is unlikely the blades sheared off completely with the engine at idle on the landing roll.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Thruster88

[RFguy]

I just dont buy that the prop just fell apart on a rotax UNLESS there was a maintenance issue. 

[facthunter]

If one blade detached the Vibration would be severe, enough to displace engines at  times. Nev

[kgwilson]

It doesn't matter what the engine is, there are a number of issues that could have caused the prop to detach including maintenance. It could have been a failure of some part of the hub or a blade leading to a chain reaction. Every mechanical device can fail. Nothing is immune.

[facthunter]

You try to have inspections frequently enough to pick up a incipient failure in the early stages. The Allison turboprops in the Hercules/ Electra were sheet steel and subject to much  cracking . Vibration sensors tended to pick that up.  Nev

[Thruster88]

7 hours ago, RFguy said:

I just dont buy that the prop just fell apart on a rotax UNLESS there was a maintenance issue. 

In the part 23 certified world there have been propellers that were in wide spread use that have since had AD or Airworthiness Directives applied to them removing them from the fleet after a very small number of failures. As we have discussed Glen things don't always work this way in the LSA world. Some engine/propeller combinations are not agreeable with each other. If the prop did in fact fail in this case will we even get to read about that?

[RFguy]

No, we probably wont read about it and that is the downside of the RA framework. There's plenty of upsides, just depends on how you rate them.

 

I would think, for a rotax, there would be very few combinations that would be problematic, it has a high range of acceptance of MMOI.  The prop is well isolated from the torque pulses . 

 

However, props in RA are a bit of wild west - not perceived as a significant modification by many .  Certainly in any direct drive engine like the Jabiru, that's very much a symbiotic relationship between prop, engine and flywheel. 

 

So I am putting this down to a maintenance issue , overspeed , or  material failure. (ha! ) . ALthough I dont even know if it lost prop on landing nor before? 

[facthunter]

We Know it had serious vibration in the air that changed to worse. Is that correct? THAT was the reason  for an off field landing.    Nev

[RFguy]

Is the Bristell a CS / IFA prop ?

[WareDark]

There are a few details about the accident. When posting in this thread, people should include more info. It will be easier to find data and answer in this section.

[BrendAn]

6 minutes ago, WareDark said:

There are a few details about the accident. When posting in this thread, people should include more info. It will be easier to find data and answer in this section.

 if there was more data someone would have put it up.  the authorities are too busy arguing about who should do the investigations to actually do any.

[WareDark]

interesting answer

[WareDark]

10 hours ago, WareDark said:

There are a few details about the accident. When posting in this thread, people should include more info. It will be easier to find data and answer in this section.

However, I see from the photos the aircraft crash was awful. I'm glad the pilot is alive. There are so many things to take care of when a person is injured after an accident. First of all, you have to find a reasonable attorney. Choosing a good specialist is crucial. I know it from my own experience. Last year I became the victim of an accident. I sued my insurance company for the refusal of payment. I wouldn't have made it without extra help from a law firm

[turboplanner]

9 hours ago, WareDark said:

interesting answer

Don't get carried away by it; most people just make assumptions like that, when in fact from my memory there hasn't been a publicly noted argument between the agencies which investigate in Australia the last 20 years.

 

In Australia Insurance companies hire specialist hire professional Loss Adjusting companies. I had some dealings with one now owned by Canadian Cunningham Lindsey where the Insurance company ran out of excuses, handed it over to the loss adjuster, they denied all liability, so the burden of proof shifted to me, and the legal process had no guarantees except a few years of fees. 

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

Don't get carried away by it; most people just make assumptions like that, when in fact from my memory there hasn't been a publicly noted argument between the agencies which investigate in Australia the last 20 years.

 

In Australia Insurance companies hire specialist hire professional Loss Adjusting companies. I had some dealings with one now owned by Canadian Cunningham Lindsey where the Insurance company ran out of excuses, handed it over to the loss adjuster, they denied all liability, so the burden of proof shifted to me, and the legal process had no guarantees except a few years of fees. 

I was referring to the raas / atsb situation.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

I was referring to the raas / atsb situation.

What situation?