Crash at Caiguna today 16/12/22.

[facthunter]

Outside or inside, a Jabiru not run for a while IF NOT INHIBITED won't be safe to operate. That also applies to MOST of the steel cylindered aero engines unless they are real oil burners. They rust  quite quickly if neglected.  Nothing new in this. There's plenty of info out there if you look for it..  Nev

[facthunter]

Last thing I heard was police are coming from Norseman. Nev

[Jabiru7252]

15 hours ago, onetrack said:

Markdun - I appreciate the problems in trying to get to the truth behind aircraft crashes, when the sensation-seeking media is deeply involved, and only interested in the shock/horror angle that brings in revenue.

 

However, I find it difficult to understand how the injury report went from "minor head scratches", to a fatality. This is reporting at its worst.

 

This is someones husband, brother or son that has been killed, so rushing in with inaccurate information before official authority on the ground, or someone reliable like the ABC, produces the actual crash result, can be upsetting to any close relatives.

 

This site receive prompt global exposure, and Google produces results from this site rapidly, so accurate crash information is pretty essential, I would've thought. The remoteness of the location means the official information is slow to get out.

 

 

A well known journalist back in the 80s told me "Never spoil a good story with the truth".

[onetrack]

Caiguna is extremely isolated. There are Police stations at Norseman and at Eucla. It's 371kms by road to Caiguna from Norseman, and 337kms by road from Eucla.

 

Police from both Eucla and Norseman attended the aircraft crash scene, but as you'd expect, it's nearly 4 hrs driving each way, and then 4 hrs back - for both teams.

That doesn't count any time spent on other offences detected along the way (drugs, motoring offences, general crime, lost property, etc, etc).

There's no more than about 4 or 5 Police stationed at Norseman, and they have 2.5M sq kms of district area to police. Their accent is largely on general crime, road crashes, and traffic duties.

 

Eucla Police station is not much larger, I don't think there's any more than about 8 or 10 police at Eucla. They have their hands full with traffic policing and border inspections (where intelligence or local reports advise of possible crime events).

They all have their time cut out, travelling and carrying out duties, and filling in reports. They don't issue too many regular "media releases" or supply many social media postings.

 

The aircraft crash information will only filter through slowly - and the media will not attend the site due to its remoteness, and the sheer cost of getting journalists/reporters out there.

 

Todays media relies on locals supplying information, and official reports from WAPOL. As the area has an exceptionally low population density, you're not going to see much news of value about the crash, for several days at least.

[JC4]

Found this forum searching for information about this incident, thanks for sharing your knowledge. 
The plane in the incident was sold on gumtree not too long ago, I think it is a SK, not a UL, probably similar to a UL,I’m not sure.

What I do know is that it had a very small tail fin and rudder, much smaller than the J120, and needed a lot of rudder input controlling it at slower speeds, during landing especially. It could be a handful for a pilot unfamiliar with this plane. It was a 20kt croswind at Caiguna airstrip, the J120 with bigger rudder can handle 12kts safely according to the operating manual, not sure about the SK.

It had a Jabiru 2200 engine. To my knowledge the airframe and engine had less than 100hours total, it was not used much during it’s life, a few hours every year.  It was only a cheap aircraft, 20K or so, can’t expect it not to be ‘rough’ I guess. 
 

at this stage we dont know if the incident happened at the runway or not? 

[BrendAn]

8 minutes ago, JC4 said:

Found this forum searching for information about this incident, thanks for sharing your knowledge. 
The plane in the incident was sold on gumtree not too long ago, I think it is a SK, not a UL, probably similar to a UL,I’m not sure.

What I do know is that it had a very small tail fin and rudder, much smaller than the J120, and needed a lot of rudder input controlling it at slower speeds, during landing especially. It could be a handful for a pilot unfamiliar with this plane. It was a 20kt croswind at Caiguna airstrip, the J120 with bigger rudder can handle 12kts safely according to the operating manual, not sure about the SK.

It had a Jabiru 2200 engine. To my knowledge the airframe and engine had less than 100hours total, it was not used much during it’s life, a few hours every year.  It was only a cheap aircraft, 20K or so, can’t expect it not to be ‘rough’ I guess. 
 

at this stage we dont know if the incident happened at the runway or not? 

SK is the homebuilt version of an lsa55.  UL has the big wing.longer fuse and bigger tail.  

[JC4]

It must be the SK then. It was definitely a home built. I know whom it belonged to, it had two owners since being completed probably 6 years ago. 

[BrendAn]

13 minutes ago, JC4 said:

It must be the SK then. It was definitely a home built. I know whom it belonged to, it had two owners since being completed probably 6 years ago. 

Bruce tuncks , a member on here is an SK expert.  He can tell you about the Handling characteristics if he sees this.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, Jabiru7252 said:

A well known journalist back in the 80s told me "Never spoil a good story with the truth".

Well it wasn't a journalist it was Mark Twain in the 19th Century and he said “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.”

 

There are no journalists in Caiguna; everyone has to get reports from those who went there, or we wouldn't have known anything.

[planedriver]

And some clown said "no news is good news"???

[Jabiru7252]

51 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Well it wasn't a journalist it was Mark Twain in the 19th Century and he said “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.”

 

There are no journalists in Caiguna; everyone has to get reports from those who went there, or we wouldn't have known anything.

No, definitely a journalist. I'm no spring chicken but I wasn't around to hear Mark Twain make the comment.

[turboplanner]

Someone lost his life here.

[kgwilson]

The Journo just copied Mark Twains historic quote but like most Journos didn't do the research & got the quote wrong.

[poteroo]

With a gusty 20 kt easterly reportedly blowing, it would be a brave PIC trying either a takeoff or landing on 04 at Caiguna. There is substantial bush 10-15m high, some 150-200m east of the runway. This always seems to create a lot of wind speed and direction change. I have seen a J170 rolled over in a 20kt SE wind on strip 22, clearly by a gust and it wasn't pretty. 

There is a windsock to the NW side, but you can't watch this while in the critical stages of t/o or ldg! 

The strip is quite wide, and it does allow for some 'angling'  of the ground roll to reduce the x/w and increase the h/w  -  if you have the skill to fly this.

 

Be warned about windy wx at Caiguna - it's a difficult location so check 1st.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

Last thing I heard was police are coming from Norseman. Nev

 

[facthunter]

To Me It's another very SAD outcome in our aviation community. Nev

[onetrack]

Here is the solitary article about the crash from this mornings West Australian newspaper. The indications are, it was a crash soon after takeoff, which does tend to indicate an EFATO.

 

However, it may also have been a simple LOC event, perhaps even a willy-willy that he hit at low altitude, right after takeoff.

 

I think Poteroo has possibly nailed it - taking off in less than ideal conditions and possibly outside the manufacturers crosswind limit.

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by onetrack

[facthunter]

Quite likely. If there's been rain lately there might not be much dust to indicate a problem.   Nev

[onetrack]

There's been no rain in the region for all of December 2022. The strip is a single strip, and as Poteroo says, the trees and bush surrounding the strip are up to 15M high. With constant strong E/SE winds this time of year, most certainly a "trap for young players", who do not have local conditions experience, and enough hours in their logbook.

 

The nearest BOM reporting station is on the coast at Red Rocks Point, about 180kms E of Caiguna as the crow flies. The wind at Red Rocks Point has recently been a consistent, steady 20-22kts from the ESE, and gusting to 25-26kts, even around sunrise. The terrain is virtually flat, only slight undulations, between Red Rocks Point and Caiguna, and only the trees and scrub moderate the wind.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Caiguna+Roadhouse/@-32.2813449,125.476319,3188m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x2af7174f109446e5:0x25454ca0af04367e!2sCaiguna+Roadhouse!8m2!3d-32.2712181!4d125.4872993!3m4!1s0x2af7174f109446e5:0x25454ca0af04367e!8m2!3d-32.2712181!4d125.4872993

 

http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDW60801/IDW60801.94644.shtml

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by onetrack

[Thruster88]

The wind is not a mystery now days, WINDY, that's an app for smart phones, predicts it with remarkable accuracy days in advance.  

 

[jackc]

Landing on the highway have been a better option?  OR fly to alternate, not many out there though. Either way may have been less crosswind for take off. Would have be best to stay on the ground for right conditions?

[Thruster88]

15 minutes ago, jackc said:

Landing on the highway have been a better option?  OR fly to alternate, not many out there though. Either way may have been less crosswind for take off. Would have be best to stay on the ground for right conditions?

That is something only the PIC pilot in command can decide.   

[jackc]

We all have our methodologies in making our decisions, based on our knowledge and risk assessment.  Even PICs with many thousands of hours in their logs can make a mistake.  Even to the point….don’t feel like flying today, so I won’t.  I used to apply it to motorcycle riding, even. 

[JC4]

I have heard the almost full story now about this incident. I dont want to reveal too much at this stage out of respect for the people involved and also the police investigation.

let me share this:

The pilot in the SK was attempting to fly to Queensland in a very short time, delivering the plane to its new owner.

He made a successful emergency landing at Caiguna because of the prop delaminating as was previously reported here. The other issues was caused by the vibration due to prop.

The pilot in the J160 took another prop and spare parts and the SK got repaired.

As the news article stated the accident happened the next day when attempting to take off.

The SK struggled to gain altitude and went down on either croswind or downwind. Apparently he turned croswind very soon and at low altitude. My thinking is maybe he wanted to turn around and land it again, I don’t think we will know the answer to this.

I don’t know why the plane couldn’t keep altitude.

 

Still very sad. Someone’s friend and loved one is gone. 
 

My take away from this is to never have a deadline to be anywhere at any particular time when flying these small envelope unltralights. Recreational flying is supposed to be fun, dont do it if it is not fun, and dont have a time frame that is set in stone. 

I’d rather be one week late than being stressed out and loose my life trying to make it on time.

 

Make safe decisions everone, it is not worth risking it, ever.

 

[Ultralights]

I was at Caiguna roadhouse and spoke to the pilot before they departed.  He decided to cancel the ferry flight and return to Perth with the aircraft as he was not comfortable flying the aircraft in poor state. The previous day both blades had fibreglass delaminated along about 50% of each blade.  Sadly his last words to us will haunt me and my wife for a very long time. 

[Blueadventures]

7 minutes ago, Ultralights said:

I was at Caiguna roadhouse and spoke to the pilot before they departed.  He decided to cancel the ferry flight and return to Perth with the aircraft as he was not comfortable flying the aircraft in poor state. The previous day both blades had fibreglass delaminated along about 50% of each blade.  Sadly his last words to us will haunt me and my wife for a very long time. 

Wow, terrible.  I guess Perth is 5 or 6 hours away (not checked distance).  Must have been comfortable to do that leg again.