Filling high-wing tanks

[onetrack]

I find the Fuel Safe brand jerrycans, made from HDPE, are a very good and very durable design - and the fuel filler spout provided with them is equally as durable, and is stored easily in the top of the container.

Parts for these jerrycans, such lids and spouts, can also be sourced - and the lids themselves are a very secure seal with petrol - unlike the Canadian Scepter jerrycans, that store the filler spout inside the container, and which units have too many parts to be lost - as well as the sealing ring they use, not being entirely satisfactory, either.

 

https://www.reflexequip.com.au/10l-jerry-can-fuel-can-container

[skippydiesel]

Diesel pumps & tanks are widely available (not news) - but  most aviators, at our level, are not really interested in this fuel (or its close relative AvTur).

 

If WA & Vic will not allow the filling of a petrol bulk tank. on  dedicated  trailer, then I guess its back to 20L fuel containers - I am sorry for your problems and disappointed (on your behalf) in your Sate Gov not facilitating the use of unleaded fuel in aviation - such is life.

 

"Very few contractors or farmers use much petrol today, the major use is jerry cans for fuelling small engines such as pumps". Its a while since I worked in commercial agriculture but my memory is of a host of small petrol engines  from chain saws, small generators, augers, elevators, pumps, etc - It would be a right pain in the posterior, if you can only service them with 20L containers. I would suggest that for intermittent/emergency use its cheaper to acquire/run a small petrol engine than an equivalent diesel or even tie up a tractor on PTO work - the manager would need to do the sums.

 

"..........transporting more than the specified quantity (500kgs)..........." This is the equivalent of 694.5L of ULP - surely this would fuel all the club/group aircraft for a significant period.

[skippydiesel]

There are supporters of most of the commonly available 20L fuel containers (metal & "plastic"). I specify 20L because this is , for most, the most cost effective method of transporting/storing ULP for our level of aviation. Each must weigh the perceive benefits of the type & cost/effectiveness of their choice (personal preference).

 

20 L fuel container that are approved (meets Australian standards) for use for the carriage/storage of petrol would seem to range from about  $20 - $80  they all contain/carry the same quantity ULP. Despite claims of enhanced usability etc will weight (full) much the same (ie the same challenging  to aged muscles to lift & hold in a pour position) - I would would question the merit of spending any more than is absolutely necessary to meet the needs of your aircraft .

 

Just had a random thought for Vic/WA members - If you are a vintage truck enthusiast and pull in to servo to fill your 200L x 2 petrol tanks, bolted to the side of the chassis - Is this allowed? If so what exception to the rules cover this? and could this exception be applied to aircraft club/groups wishing to fill their bulk petrol trailer tank?

Edited December 23, 2022 by skippydiesel

[jackc]

Most Govt Depts won’t allow the use of 20lt jerry cans due to being too heavy when filled, due to OH&S rules.

I use 2 x 10 litre cans as it’s a balanced load for my body to carry, using 1 x 20 litre can is an unbalanced load and not good for your body, especially when  heaving it into the back of a ute. 

[turboplanner]

9 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

OMG! the Nany State Strikes again - What do all the farmers do? Not everything runs on diesel and only big operators would find it economic to truck in petrol.

 

Never seen the like in NSW but perhaps WA is a hint of future draconian rule. Bureaucracies seem to be on some sot of race to the bottom. You will probably be banned from flying non certified aircraft, FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY.

 

Could you get a tanker to fill your 44 on site?

 

 

Nany's Fuel Farm Pickups operate over most of Australia filling overhead gravity tanks or dropping as many 200 litre drums of whatever you order.

[onetrack]

Petrol fuel tanks of any size, installed in a vehicle and approved by the vehicle authority, are not a problem when it comes to refuelling. This has been accepted practice since the dawn of the motoring era.

Transporting bulk petrol in 200L drums is quite acceptable without DG licencing, provided they are properly secured, and don't exceed the 500kgs (or 500L) of dangerous goods transport requirements.

But the refilling of 200L drums that are sitting on a vehicle, is forbidden in every fuel-handling depot or servo in Australia.

Numerous servo operators are lax about enforcing regulations, so you may have been able to get away with illegal refuelling stunts for years. But if something goes wrong, and you start a fire, you'll soon learn it pays to know fuel handling regulations.

 

The bottom line is that petrol is a highly flammable liquid (specifically categorised as a Class 3 Flammable Liquid) which vaporises very easily - and the volatile fumes from which, ignite very easily by any form of stray spark.

Diesel, on the other hand is regarded as simply a combustible liquid, with minimal vapours, which vapours are far less easily ignited. As a result, diesel is treated as simply a moderate handling risk, whereas petrol is treated as a highly dangerous handling risk.

 

There are regulations about the storage of jerrycans of petrol on vehicles. You are not allowed to store petrol jerrycans on the rear or outside of vehicles, trailers, campers or caravans - simply because of the major risk of a large fuel fire in the event of a collision.

There are regulations about the Standards Requirements for petrol and diesel containers (up to 25L). These are covered under AS/NZS 2906:2001 Standard. "Approved" portable fuel containers must meet this standard, and be clearly marked accordingly. "Unapproved" fuel containers (i.e. - unmarked ones such as 20L oil containers) are illegal, and will not be filled by most servo operators.

I have not yet found the Standards applying to larger fuel containers, such as 200L drums - but be aware that many previously-used 200L drums are not suitable as petrol containers, because they simply lack adequate material strength.

205L oil drums are a heavier construction than many standard 200L drums, and are suitable for transporting petrol.

 

Handling petrol, when refuelling, storing or carrying it, is all about risk management, and like everything today, it's all driven by lawyers - so we end up with all these regulations and rules - the largest number of them coming about as a direct result of nasty incidents involving poor handling, or poor storage of petrol. You may not see the total number of petrol fires or refuelling accidents annually, but I'll wager your local firies can tell you some good stories. 

 

The fuel handling and storage regulations overlap, because portable containers are not treated the same as storage areas for dangerous goods such as highly flammable liquids - but the risks are still the same, regardless.

The fuel handling and storage regulations also differentiate between housing areas, industrial areas, metropolitan areas, towns, and rural areas. As you'd expect, regulations are relaxed for rural areas, as the risks are diminished as compared to highly-populated areas.

 

Interestingly, a local fuel handling specialist company has a European-made 100L fuel trolley specifically designed for petrol. It meets AS/NZS fuel container Standards, and is fitted with an approved electric pump for refuelling purposes.

No doubt, it's probably quite an expensive little unit. The only problem I see with it, is how you're supposed to refill it, when servos and fuel-handling regulations prohibit refilling containers over 25L in size, in service stations. 

Obviously, it would need to be refilled by a fuel distribution tanker or by a fuel distribution depot. Either option is not ideal, and both would be expensive.

The only other alternative, is to fill multiple jerrycans at a servo, and then transfer the contents to the 100L trolley.

 

https://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/filling-portable-fuel-containers-flammable-liquids-service-stations

 

https://blog.storemasta.com.au/is-petrol-flammable#:~:text=Generally%2C petrol fuel has a,as a highly flammable substance.

 

https://handyfuelwa.com.au/100-litre-portable-petrol-trolley/

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by onetrack

[Thruster88]

On 22/12/2022 at 2:27 PM, pmccarthy said:

I just had another disaster, fuel all over the wing and over me. Does anyone have suggestions for filling high-wing tanks? I transfer fuel to a 10-litre red plastic can, standing on a good platform, but getting it into the tank is the problem.  Have tried several funnels but they all fall over at some stage. My small Mr Funnel is the worst. Have tried with and without the funnel that screws into the can. I have never had a problem filling low-wing aircraft.

 

Am I doing something fundamentally wrong, or does everyone have this problem? I have read the posts about using different types of pumps and perhaps will go that way but surely most people just fill from jerry cans.

 

A simple jiggler siphon is what I use. Cheap and it always works. I don't use funnel filters on my aircraft, cars or farm machinery, I like simple.  You could cable tie stainless filter mesh over the inlet of the jiggler if that is a concern. 

 

One hand touching the wing at filler holding hose, other touching Jerry can will take care of any static electricity.  

[turboplanner]

I just did some research on elevated tanks etc. for a small airfield or country strip.

 

Elevated farm tanks have progressed in line with workplace standards, and delivery driver no longer climb up the ladders to check levels and refuel, so gauges, ground filling, internal inspection hatches etc. have pushed prices above affordable for 1 or 2 aircraft.

 

Applicable storage and handling standards are: AS/NZS 2906 and the Australian Dangerous Goods Code.

 

As Onetrack said fuel can't be carried inside a station wagon, on the back or front of a car or the back, front and drawbar if a caravan, but can be carried on a roof rack or the back of a ute or a trailer. These have the advantage of dispersing vapour.

 

I'll leave people to look up the car boot requirements from their own local service station.

 

All of this means the 200 litre drum is looking better as a fuel dispenser.

Quart pumps, or even better rotary vane pumps, both with long delivery hoses are ideal for two man refuelling for high wing; electric, controlled at nozzle for single operator.

The ideal location is in its own small shed to minimise evaporation and water ingress and theft, the shed being located to aircraft can taxy past it..

 

Supply

Every farming district has a farm fuel delivery agent; may not be in your town but will be delivering down to single drums in your district. The drawing below shows a typical farm unit in the 1990s where gravity was used to handle the drums, dock to rear tray, rear tray to ground, and when empty they were light enough to lift back on to the tray. These days I would expect to see a hydraulic tailgate doing the lowering and lifting. There is a knack to getting the drum to the correct angle and spinning it along the ground, but it's not hard to learn. The truck does its round at regular intervals based on what you are using. If use increases, just add a second drum etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[skippydiesel]

A word (or more) on syphons/jigglers/power aided syphons;

 

Now retired to a "hobby" farm, I still have some, larger, by domestic standards, diesel & petrol powered machinery. I refuel with the aid of 20 L drums & a jiggle syphon. This works very well on the farm because I have machines with hydraulic buckets that can lift the 20 L fuel container(s) to a good height (relative to the tank fill point), so that gravity can work its little miracle .

 

As a believer in putting clean fuel into my machines, I have an in line filter (120 mu) on my syphons.

 

This system would work well if I had a hydraulic helper, where the aircraft lives and if I could take the hydraulic helper with me on away trips but unfortunately this is not the case.

 

The reality is, for any sort of syphon to work effectively the supply tank must be above the receiving tank ie you must lift your 20L to a functional height - this the physical exertion I would try to avoid.

 

Syphons would not work for me.

[Garfly]

This (AA) battery powered unit from Easyflo works well for me.

 

https://easyflo.com.au/

[IBob]

1 hour ago, Garfly said:

This (AA) battery powered unit from Easyflo works well for me.

 

https://easyflo.com.au/

Now that looks to be a step in the right direction!
I note that it is shown transferring fuel between 2 containers at approx the same level. The spec makes no mention as to how it would perform if pumping 'uphill'.
Garfly, do you use yours with the can next to the filling point, or are you pumping from ground up to the wing? And if so, how well does it go, and how long do the batteries last?

[onetrack]

I seem to recall these units have only a very small flow rate once the hose is raised any substantial distance above the fuel container. They're satisfactory for "equal levels" fuel transfer.

I would also like to know how long the 4 x AA batteries last, not very long, I would imagine.

[IBob]

The spec says the batteries are good for 400L I think.

[pmccarthy]

Looks  very interesting. Could sit on the wing in a 10 litre container.

[IBob]

1 minute ago, pmccarthy said:

Looks  very interesting. Could sit on the wing in a 10 litre container.

My thought exactly........)

[onetrack]

I have found out Scintex are selling a 75 litre petrol fuel trolley. The petrol version only comes with a manually-operated rotary hand pump, that looks a bit cheap. The diesel trolley comes with an electric pump.

 

https://www.scintex.com.au/products/portable-fuel-tank-75l?variant=5563747794973&currency=AUD

[jackc]

33 minutes ago, IBob said:

My thought exactly........)

Well, I am about to find out…….got one of those pumps a few months ago, not tried mine yest

[Blueadventures]

26 minutes ago, onetrack said:

I have found out Scintex are selling a 75 litre petrol fuel trolley. The petrol version only comes with a manually-operated rotary hand pump, that looks a bit cheap. The diesel trolley comes with an electric pump.

 

https://www.scintex.com.au/products/portable-fuel-tank-75l?variant=5563747794973&currency=AUD

This is an image of what I use.  Voltage from aircraft or separate battery.  Works great for me.

[trailer]

The topic of refuelling comes up all the time at my club. It is clearly an issue for us. Something like this Rechargeable pump look okay but they are currently unavailable. Would love a trolley mounted solution so 20l drums could sit there being decanted as needed with the ability to restrict flow as the tank fills. In my experience there is no great method decanting fuel into wing tanks aircraft straight from the container. 

 

https://easyflo.com.au/rechargeable-battery-fuel-transfer-pump-with-non-spill-nozzle/

[Carbon Canary]

Has anyone tried one of these ? (I haven’t)…..and yes it does pressurise the jerry can, but at least it can’t generate a spark.  I see the portability as an added advantage for ‘away’ filling but interested to hear comments on the jerry can pressurisation issue.
 

https://www.motamec.com/motamec-jerry-can-rapid-fuel-transfer-hand-pump-for-petrol-diesel.html?SID=aviitu4vtkh985gcfsk6rc6ps2

[Garfly]

3 hours ago, IBob said:

Garfly, do you use yours with the can next to the filling point, or are you pumping from ground up to the wing? And if so, how well does it go, and how long do the batteries last?

Yeah, it's not designed to for high lifting so I tend to just use it with the jerry (20 or 10) up on the turtle deck, resting on a board.  I can manage to get 20L up there (just) but then I don't have to manhandle it in a tricky pouring situation.  But the little pump is also handy on the ground transferring from 20's to 10s, for example.  Less messy than pouring through funnels - so many opportunities for things to go wrong.  Batteries have not been a problem, so far.  The pump is only running for minutes at a time.  It's also small and light enough to carry on board.

[rodgerc]

These work a treat….I use the 10L version but younger and fitter folk could save time with the 20L

[skippydiesel]

4 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

This is an image of what I use.  Voltage from aircraft or separate battery.  Works great for me.

It resembles my Holly copy but may be something different. Please name the pump or type.

 

What is the actual flow rate (either 20L/?minutes or ?L/minute)?

 

[skippydiesel]

32 minutes ago, rodgerc said:

These work a treat….I use the 10L version but younger and fitter folk could save time with the 20L

Great! You (race cars/bikes/carts) have solved the issue of high speed fueling without spilling a drop BUT you still have to lift 10/20L high enough to invert the container and place it in the fueling point - its the lift that my pears & I find so strenuous.

 

5 hours ago, onetrack said:

I have found out Scintex are selling a 75 litre petrol fuel trolley. The petrol version only comes with a manually-operated rotary hand pump, that looks a bit cheap. The diesel trolley comes with an electric pump.

 

https://www.scintex.com.au/products/portable-fuel-tank-75l?variant=5563747794973&currency=AUD

Great looking set up , staggering price and not so practical for away trips.

[Blueadventures]

10 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

It resembles my Holly copy but may be something different. Please name the pump or type.

 

What is the actual flow rate (either 20L/?minutes or ?L/minute)?

 

Aeroflow Red, Black is a faster pump rate but to me speed is not every thing and can contribute to a spill situation.  20 liters in 3 1/2 minutes.  Have a toggle switch on a handle on a meter lead.  And 90 degree elbow at filling end so it rests on rim of Mr Funnel.  Takes both 20 litre plastic jerry cans and the jug type in image.  I hold the switch in one hand and the fill end into the funnel with the other hand.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Blueadventures