Taking ASIC too far?

[old man emu]

I've just had a stick poked into the spokes of my plans for the flying event I'm planning and it's all to do with ASIC.

 

To ensure the orderly, safe starting of the flying competition, I was planning to place marshals along ground path from the assembly area to the starting line, like lollipop people around roadworks. Providing training to those people about their functions will be easy, so I am not worried about that part of the job.

 

The problem that has hit me is that, even though Tooraweenah is an uncontrolled aerodrome with no RPT service, I'm told that everyone who is airside hs to have an ASIC card. I was hoping to employ the members of the local Air Training Corp squadron to do this job. I doubt if all these young people would have an ASIC card. Does that mean I have to ask some pilots to drop out of the competition to do this airside work?

 

What can I do?

[turboplanner]

13 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I've just had a stick poked into the spokes of my plans for the flying event I'm planning and it's all to do with ASIC.

 

To ensure the orderly, safe starting of the flying competition, I was planning to place marshals along ground path from the assembly area to the starting line, like lollipop people around roadworks. Providing training to those people about their functions will be easy, so I am not worried about that part of the job.

 

The problem that has hit me is that, even though Tooraweenah is an uncontrolled aerodrome with no RPT service, I'm told that everyone who is airside hs to have an ASIC card. I was hoping to employ the members of the local Air Training Corp squadron to do this job. I doubt if all these young people would have an ASIC card. Does that mean I have to ask some pilots to drop out of the competition to do this airside work?

 

What can I do?

First double check that an ASIC really is required at Tooraweena, and it's not just someone from a nearby RPT airport that's assuming ASIC is required everywhere. My memory of Tooraweenah is a quiet area where the kangaroos come out at night to eat the grass.

[Area-51]

ASIC is only required at Security Airfields.... generally if there is a fence all around the field and coded gate entry in/out of airside it will be ASIC Secured.

[Ironpot]

No ASIC required according to ERSA!

[skippydiesel]

Taking (accepting) ASIC in the first instance is a step way to far!

[Yenn]

Who told you and have you checked to see that their advice is correct? Or did you just accept it as the media would.

[old man emu]

It was brought up in a planning conversation. I even think it was me who brought it up. My method is to act as Devil's Advocate and try to think of everything that go wrong and then try to find solutions.  That's why I have raised the question here to get advice.

 

So far it seems that the opinion is that the damned card is not required. I hope that is correct, but I'll go check the ASIC site now.

 

Thanks for your responses.

[facthunter]

I think it lists the Council as being in charge. I can't see why they'd want to go ASIC but if I recall correctly whoever is in charge decides the Plan.   Nev

[old man emu]

It's a council-owned aerodrome. They don't have much of a clue about operating an aerodrome. They got their nose out of joint when we flipped over the "Unserviceable" cross near the windsock because they had not mown the strip and we reckoned the long grass made it unsafe for light aircraft operations. So I don't think they know what ACSIC is. Probably think some dyslexic is talking about the Australian Securities and Investments Commission ASIC.

[Ironpot]

btw I can't think of an airstrip where the MAIN runway is unsealed and they require an ASIC.

 

 

[facthunter]

Penfield.   (Sunbury Vic). Nev

[pylon500]

Worse case scenario could be that 'a' person with an ASIC may be required to be responsible for other people on the field?

[Neil_S]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Penfield.   (Sunbury Vic). Nev

Hi Nev,

 

Not sure where you got the idea that Penfield requires an ASIC - it doesn't, as ERSA will confirm.

 

Cheers,

Neil

[onetrack]

From the official Gubbmint site (my bolding) ...

 

"What is an Aviation Security Identification Card (ASIC)?

 

An Aviation Security Identification Card, known as an ASIC, is an identification card which is used to identify a person who has been the subject of a background check.

An ASIC is required to obtain unescorted access to the secure areas of security controlled airports that have regular public transport (RPT) services. ASICs are valid for up to 2 years."

 

I don't see why you'd even need to ask about an ASIC card for any event or aircraft movements at Tooraweenah. Better to concentrate on the safety aspects and your rules and regulations for aircraft movements on the ground at Tooraweenah, and ensuring there are no conflicts with ground vehicles and personnel.

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by onetrack

[kgwilson]

I have run plenty of events at South Grafton & we provide airside marshals and public security, car parking, ticketing people etc. This was also when the aerodrome was council run as well as since being run by the hangar owners. We were required to apply for an Event DA from the local council which was done & it is valid for 5 years & we get it renewed at 5 yearly intervals. This was the same at Evans Head when the Great Eastern Flyins were held. ASICS are never required at any uncontrolled aerodrome that has no RPT and no security fencing. Toraweenah is a country airstrip and I am even surprised it is published in ERSA given the only information provided is the location, operator details and runways. Even the runway length is omitted. Someone is talking through a hole in their hat.

[Neil_S]

I recently went to a CASA Safety seminar at Point Cook. We were told we would need photo ID at the main gate to get in as it is a military base.

However, an ASIC was not acceptable, but a driver's license was. Sums it up, really.

 

Cheers,

Neil

[kgwilson]

ASICS were, are and always will be a crock. I have refused to ever get one. I have only ever been challenged once & then I just ignored the security bloke as I was already inside the security area anyway. They can't check you on the way in if you are flying. The system is a joke making money for a few outfits who are p!ssing in pollies pockets.

[facthunter]

Penfield used to Neil. If they now don't, that's good thing. Nev

[Ironpot]

I know most of you know this already but for the benefit of new pilots and students who simply pop in here for information:-

 

An ASIC is nothing to be worried about - it's not a big deal as long as you have a clean criminal record. There’s a bit of paperwork and a fee which, to my mind, is currently far too high. You need to take a photo with your phone/iPad and its all done online. You have to collect it from an Agent, in person, producing the original ID docs.

 

Now; it is perfectly possible to aviate around our great nation without an ASIC - some major airfields do not require one -  e.g. Jandakot, Camden, Archerfield etc. But a lot of tiny airfields do require you to display your ASIC e.g. Coober Pedy, Bendigo, Quilpie etc. Sometimes it's about AVGAS availability - do you need? ERSA is your friend. If you look up an airfield and it states in Remarks that “This AD is a Security Controlled Airport” then you should have an ASIC when you head that way.

 

Upthread someone stated that they simply ignored the ARO when approached - maybe not a good idea. The AROs do understand and will help if you’ve simply just flown in for a wiz/avgas etc.  My experience has always been that they are great people to deal with. However, be aware that Security Controlled Airports are being monitored by the AFP and they have to abide by the AFP protocols - even if it is Roma!

 

Also, a lot of places don’t display the gate code anymore. There might be a camera and they want see your ASIC before they give you the gate code - they maybe just can’t let you pass landside/airside even if you have a VH registered aircraft sitting at the bowser.

 

In summary, it's just not a big deal. You can plan around it, if you so wish,  and even if you don’t have an ASIC, a little bit of decorum and simple common-sense will get you through everything except the major airports.

 

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, pylon500 said:

Worse case scenario could be that 'a' person with an ASIC may be required to be responsible for other people on the field?

That was going to be the solution applied to the problem. However, you blokes have clarified the matter. Tooraweenah is an ASIC-free location!

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Ironpot said:

I know most of you know this already but for the benefit of new pilots and students who simply pop in here for information:-

 

An ASIC is nothing to be worried about - it's not a big deal................................................................

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

In summary, it's just not a big deal. You can plan around it, if you so wish,  and even if you don’t have an ASIC, a little bit of decorum and simple common-sense will get you through everything except the major airports.

 

No offence intended Ironpot but I cant believe that any pilot (operating outside the major airports) would accept the undermining of our liberty, for absolutely no tangible improvement in Australian security -ASIC was a knee jerk reaction to an overseas event (sort of understandable given the standard of so many of our leaders) that should have been abolished at the earliest opportunity (is it 12 years ago?)

 

ASIC is a sick & inconvenient joke, that has the potential to cause harm. Consider the possibility; that a pilot without ASIC, unwilling to land at a Security Controlee Airfield, continues on, in the hope of reaching a less hostile destination, running out of fuel and possibly dying. This may be a stretch of the imagination but people make all sorts of decisions based on fear of prosecution, etc.

 

I have yet to see any rational argument for the retention of ASIC on minor airfields (even if they have two RPTS a week/day/month or non any more)

[Kununurra]

Ironpot,

Now; it is perfectly possible to aviate around our great nation without an ASIC - some major airfields do not require one -  e.g. Jandakot, Camden, Archerfield etc. But a lot of tiny airfields do require you to display your ASIC e.g. Coober Pedy, Bendigo, Quilpie etc. Sometimes it's about AVGAS availability - do you need? ERSA is your friend. If you look up an airfield and it states in Remarks that “This AD is a Security Controlled Airport” then you should have an ASIC when you head that way.

 

A quick check of ERSA indicates Archerfield does fall within this category of requiring the ASIC.

Same for Coober Pedy, Bendigo & Quilpie.

Oops

 

 

[Neil_S]

16 hours ago, facthunter said:

Penfield used to Neil. If they now don't, that's good thing. Nev

Hi Nev,

 

Wow - I never knew that. It must have been a long time ago as I've been there for about 14 years. As you rightly say - good thing they don't any more!!

 

Cheers,

Neil

[kgwilson]

So what are the security issues at these small regional airports? They probably don't want people wandering around the runways or tinkering with aircraft so put up a fence and have some video surveillance. It is not as if someone is going to hijack a local RPT. Where are they going to go to?

 

No the system was a kneejerk reaction to the twin towers attack in 2001 and strict security was enacted in the US & once the whole thing was over security was relaxed again back to normal & thousands of local airports that have local RPT operate without any special ID system for pilots. Same in most other countries. Not here though. The original ASIC was issued by CASA & RA-Aus but now is issued by approved profit making businesses & no longer by CASA or RA-Aus.

 

An ASIC is no use at a major or international airport anyway. There you need an AVID and completely understandable. There isn't an international airport in the world that does not have a security system for aircrew.

[Bosi72]

On 30/12/2022 at 9:02 AM, old man emu said:

I've just had a stick poked into the spokes of my plans for the flying event I'm planning and it's all to do with ASIC.

 

To ensure the orderly, safe starting of the flying competition, I was planning to place marshals along ground path from the assembly area to the starting line, like lollipop people around roadworks. Providing training to those people about their functions will be easy, so I am not worried about that part of the job.

 

The problem that has hit me is that, even though Tooraweenah is an uncontrolled aerodrome with no RPT service, I'm told that everyone who is airside hs to have an ASIC card. I was hoping to employ the members of the local Air Training Corp squadron to do this job. I doubt if all these young people would have an ASIC card. Does that mean I have to ask some pilots to drop out of the competition to do this airside work?

 

What can I do?

 

Imagine every visitor to Avalon Airshow being asked to obtain ASIC/AVID before attending the airshow. And clearly there will be people wandering on the tarmac, entering aircrafts, etc... 

I don't expect the same even for the security as they will have their own "unique" cards/badges/hi-viz/etc...