Taking ASIC too far?

[facthunter]

Let's organise it so as when one freedom is reduced another  restriction will be relaxed. That is a situation of balance. When the ASIC first came into being one notorious clown from CASA said "Not ONE plane will be able to leave the ground in Australia without an ASIC". Patently in error but indicates what they are happy with. Called a Freudian Slip. (and also Empire Building) Nev 

[Ironpot]

 

 

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

Why is there a need for the stringent checking for the ASIC card twenty or more years since the need for greater security arose?

Because there is a new group of players. You would know the details are not advertised.

[coljones]

2 hours ago, kgwilson said:

So what additional information is required for an ASIC card that isn't required for a drivers licence? A drivers licence is used as ID for multiple government, banking and other organisations systems plus a few other things to make up 100 points.

 

They want to know your addresses for the last 10 years & you have to provide other IDs and proof like medicare card, photo id like drivers licence/passport, rates or utilities account etc. 

 

 So your drivers licence and CASA licences or RAA membership card covers all that and you already have it so an ASIC is no better form of ID that what you already have. It is just a stupid, expensive bit of red plastic with your mug shot on it that you hang round your neck that some think makes you look important.

But we don't know what background checks are undertaken as part of the ASIC investigation.  I would have thought that "working with children" checks would be equally extensive but are much cheaper in comparison.

 

The 100 point check is absolutely no guarantee of a persons integrity.  Plenty of crooks, criminals, paedophiles and other lowlifes have licences and bank accounts.  The 100 point check is only there to ensure that the gummint doesn't miss out on run of the mill taxes.  We can't even get pollies to agree on a cashless gaming cards to keep ne'er do wells out of pubs, clubs and casinos.

 

The owners and administrators of airports are entitled to ensure the bonafides of users of their facilities - to a certain extent the ASIC is about the best it gets BUT at a very high price.

[aro]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

Because there is a new group of players. You would know the details are not advertised.

And you think they will voluntarily submit to a check? The critical question is how does not having an ASIC stop someone who is prepared to break the law?

[turboplanner]

4 minutes ago, aro said:

And you think they will voluntarily submit to a check? The critical question is how does not having an ASIC stop someone who is prepared to break the law?

Fortunately our security forces don't have to rely on all social media commentators  for that.

[aro]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

Fortunately our security forces don't have to rely on all social media commentators  for that.

The difference between an ASIC check and secretly investigating pilot and student pilot license holders is that the results of the ASIC check have to be known to the pilot.

 

The security forces like to keep this stuff secret. So the ASIC is basically useless to them - they will do their own separate investigations, keeping the results to themselves, and will not rely on people volunteering for a check.

[spacesailor]

It seems ( as a bystander ) that ALL these security I D cards should be merged into one  AUSTRALIAN  CARD .

I have a photo license PLUS a photo Identity card .

Why two ,  because Jackboot Johny said , the photo license is NOT to be use as an identity card. NOR can an ASIC card be used to go through an international airport,

OR even the boaties migration office when leaving for oversea's destinations .

spacesailor

Edited January 2, 2023 by spacesailor

[facthunter]

Well, Passports are easy enough to fake.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

4 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Because there is a new group of players. You would know the details are not advertised.

Turb's me old mate - If there are so many boggy men out there;

• How come the AFP (or whomsoever Gov security persons) are not actively checking out these, often remote ,Security Controlled Airfields (SCA)?
• How come so many of the security fences /gates can be circumnavigated/breached by any member of he public who cares to do so?
• How come busy airfields (without RPT/non SCA)  with  hundreds of aircraft, from twin turbo props, down to light sport aircraft, can be accessed by members of the public, without an ASIC, any sign of security?
• How come so many ASIC holders tell the same story of never having been asked for their ASIC/challenged at a SCA?

 

Face it the ASIC is a joke has no beneficial effect on Australian security and as such  is an affront to the ideals of a democracy - its a law for the sake of making a law.

[facthunter]

To appear to be doing something, and I'm saying it in a gruff voice, Not whining.. Nev

[onetrack]

7 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Well, Passports are easy enough to fake.  Nev

The latest ones aren't. I've just got a new one ($360, thanks very much!). They make them more difficult to fake every year, with holograms and all sorts of tricks. The pages are now laser-engraved polycarbonate, and many embedded features alter their appearance under UV light, or by just tilting the page.

 

https://www.passports.gov.au/features-australias-new-passport

[skippydiesel]

5 hours ago, jackc said:

Skippy,  Try peeing upwind in a Cyclone?  All that will happen is you will get wet?  WHY pick a War that is not winnable.?  Find a way around the problem you want to fix.  Don’t like ASIC cards?  I don’t like the idea of them either. Quite simple, I won’t fly where one is needed so problem is solved for me.  

In the future flying may involve the use of clandestine airstrips as  ASICS may be needed to land at ALL documented airstrips, nothing would surprise me, the way the World is going.  The total worst of it all could be, you hold a pilots certificate or licence, it will be mandatory to have an ASIC Card?  So what then?  Fly with NO licence and NO ASIC Card, NO Rego number displayed?  Own you own airstrip? Be the best thing you could do.

Everyone here knows the suggestive answers I could make 🙂 

 

I would rather get pissed on, than not stand up and express my opposition to what I see as the thin edge of totalitarian rule - how quickly we forget the lessons of history and how easy it is to slip from a benign Government, to  the iron fist of totalitarianism. 

It starts with the enacting of petty, illogical laws often to support political fearmongering and marginalisation of minority groups - get the drift?

Avoidance, by good men, of ASIC and similar arguably minor  issues, has echoes of how a civilised law abiding society can start to slip into anarchy.

Why should you (an Australian citizen/resident/tax payer and all round member of society) feel that you wont fly into a SCA - they are public facilities. Would you accept not using certain public roads if to do so,  required you showing a security pass?

If there comes a time, when ASIC is justifiable, is properly administered/implemented, I will be a supporter but I can see this happening any time soon.

[turboplanner]

5 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Turb's me old mate - If there are so many boggy men out there;

• How come the AFP (or whomsoever Gov security persons) are not actively checking out these, often remote ,Security Controlled Airfields (SCA)?

Perhaps you're tinking about Border Force who would be checking out remote airstrips, WW2 airstrips in NT etc. for drug running.

 

These people pose  different threat.

 

5 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

• How come so many of the security fences /gates can be circumnavigated/breached by any member of he public who cares to do so?

I did say the people squealing on this thread don't know what it's all about and I'm not going to publish it.

 

5 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

• How come busy airfields (without RPT/non SCA)  with  hundreds of aircraft, from twin turbo props, down to light sport aircraft, can be accessed by members of the public, without an ASIC, any sign of security?

Because they are not a threat?

 

5 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

• How come so many ASIC holders tell the same story of never having been asked for their ASIC/challenged at a SCA?

I haven't been asked for my driver's licence for about ten years, since I stopped drag racing from the lights.  You don't have to be told who the targets are.

 

5 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Face it the ASIC is a joke has no beneficial effect on Australian security and as such  is an affront to the ideals of a democracy - its a law for the sake of making a law.

Did they call you in and say "Skippy old son, here's the situation, there's no threat, we're just doing this as a game, so tell everyone it's a joke and there's no beneficial effect. And BTW the people we have put through the Courts and which the Courts have locked up for a long time were only going to go to the airports to pick flowers." because if they haven't, maybe you should go and get some one on one advice on what it's all about and then keep it to yourself.

[skippydiesel]

No worries Turbs - I have no doubt that Big Brother will look out for one so loyal and unquestioning as yourself.

 

All the best for the New Year

 

Stay Safe

Edited January 2, 2023 by skippydiesel

[jackc]

Skippy,  See what this achieved for their cause?

Sometimes a War is not worth fighting,  ASIC Card is one of them…..

https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/02/18/aftermath-of-the-convoy-to-canberra-protests/

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

Skippy,  See what this achieved for their cause?

Sometimes a War is not worth fighting,  ASIC Card is one of them…..

https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/02/18/aftermath-of-the-convoy-to-canberra-protests/

Jackc

 

I admire their efforts, even if I don support their causes - they gave it their best shot. They used their right to protest, organised and made  their voices heard.

 

Like us (pilots) they are a minority - this combined with some pretty wild ideas, will see their efforts come to very little.

 

What do pilots do? - big fat 0. What has/are the Australian pilot organisations done/doing? - big fat 0

 

There is no "War" - I am not a fundamentalist of any calling, I do however believe in the inertia of Government and its bureaucracy. Like all inert objects they will not move on a point until a force is applied. Force in this context is vote getter/losers/good press/bad press. Politicians are pragmatists (I did have amore colourful word) always on the look out for a vote getter/saver - this can be used. Bureaucrats on the other hand only answer to politicians (public servants - ha!) .

 

Did you ever write to the editor of Sport Pilot on this topic? Have you contacted your pilots organisation?

 

ASIC will tick along annoying the hell out of most private pilots making the Gov. contract administrator a nice comfortable (probably not spectacular) income for very little investment. 

 

Would it not be great if we (private pilots) could actually get our collective act together, to make a descent protest but noooo! all way to individualistic, comfortable, blase. 

 

[facthunter]

You'll keep copping what you just put up with. Psst (Decent).   Nev

[kgwilson]

I am too old to get stuck in to Pollies and bureaucrats. I just provide passive resistance. I don't have an ASIC, won't get one and will fly and land where ever I need to & if challenged will provide the appropriated resistance response. 

[facthunter]

RAAus is compromised. It can't bite the hand that feeds it.  CASA and Sponsors. AOPA is the ONLY independent organisation who could speak freely.  Nev

[coljones]

32 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Jackc

 

I admire their efforts, even if I don support their causes - they gave it their best shot. They used their right to protest, organised and made  their voices heard.

 

Like us (pilots) they are a minority - this combined with some pretty wild ideas, will see their efforts come to very little.

 

What do pilots do? - big fat 0. What has/are the Australian pilot organisations done/doing? - big fat 0

 

There is no "War" - I am not a fundamentalist of any calling, I do however believe in the inertia of Government and its bureaucracy. Like all inert objects they will not move on a point until a force is applied. Force in this context is vote getter/losers/good press/bad press. Politicians are pragmatists (I did have amore colourful word) always on the look out for a vote getter/saver - this can be used. Bureaucrats on the other hand only answer to politicians (public servants - ha!) .

 

Did you ever write to the editor of Sport Pilot on this topic? Have you contacted your pilots organisation?

 

ASIC will tick along annoying the hell out of most private pilots making the Gov. contract administrator a nice comfortable (probably not spectacular) income for very little investment. 

 

Would it not be great if we (private pilots) could actually get our collective act together, to make a descent protest but noooo! all way to individualistic, comfortable, blase. 

 

I'm not so sure about spectacular profits. The government has a habit of taking the lowest tender and sometimes this is with the intention of driving operators out of business so they can sponsor production in China.  Another taktic is to defer government expenditure so that an Australian manufacturer will scrap their assembly line because there is no certainty about ever getting another contract.  Think ships, armoured vehicles, planes, trains, automobiles, ferries, footwear, clothing, electronics.  It is almost as if politicians and public servants hate Australia.

[old man emu]

20 minutes ago, coljones said:

It is almost as if politicians and public servants hate Australia.

Thirty pieces of silver?

[coljones]

1 hour ago, coljones said:

I'm not so sure about spectacular profits. The government has a habit of taking the lowest tender and sometimes this is with the intention of driving operators out of business so they can sponsor production in China.  Another taktic is to defer government expenditure so that an Australian manufacturer will scrap their assembly line because there is no certainty about ever getting another contract.  Think ships, armoured vehicles, planes, trains, automobiles, ferries, footwear, clothing, electronics.  It is almost as if politicians and public servants hate Australia.

Forgot the biggy- submarines

[jackc]

AOPA?   Been there, done that and the strain of trying to tow start a concrete 747 was too hard. So I did not renew my membership and walked away…….

 

[facthunter]

That (or something like it) is your only hope.  Nev