Jab down in Wentworth 2 Jan 23.

[RFguy]

airframe held together well enough, as usual... good outcome....  hope the engine is pulled apart by someone who knows what to look for what to report on, so something can be learned.

Edited January 2, 2023 by RFguy

[onetrack]

It's a 2003 Jab with a solid lifter 3300 engine. It was sold in late 2011 with just under 450 hrs TT on it, back then. The engine was reported as having new heads fitted just before the sale.

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by onetrack

[RFguy]

well a 3300 missing one pot can (usually) still make enough power to maintain altitude, so something might have happened that affected the whole lot (or more than one)  

[BrendAn]

  On 02/01/2023 at 11:25 AM, onetrack said:

It's a 2003 Jab with a solid lifter 3300 engine. It was sold in late 2011 with just under 450 hrs TT on it, back then. The engine was reported as having new heads fitted just before the sale.

 

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you may have looked up the wrong plane. its an lsa 55 4cylinder. pretty sure they never had a 6 cylinder version.

[BrendAn]

  On 02/01/2023 at 12:53 PM, BrendAn said:

you may have looked up the wrong plane. its an lsa 55 4cylinder. pretty sure they never had a 6 cylinder version.

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[onetrack]

Thanks for the correction BrendAn - Yes, my error. I went back and re-read the ad, and it didn't mention the engine size, only the new heads.

 

I saw "Lowrance Airmap 300 GPS" in the line below it, and in a hurry, misread that as 3300.

[jackc]

Well, I bought a Jabiru and know of all the things that can happen and have happened, to some of them.  Flying has its elements of risk of losing an engine in flight for whatever reason, in any aircraft.  Engine sh1ts the bed?  You instantly become PIC of a glider, having to do an out landing. So just run your checklist and make the most of it.  Jabiru seem to have a solid airframe so that is a bonus 🙂 

[turboplanner]

  On 02/01/2023 at 11:22 AM, RFguy said:

airframe held together well enough, as usual... good outcome....  hope the engine is pulled apart by someone who knows what to look for what to report on, so something can be learned.

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Have another look.

 

[turboplanner]

  On 02/01/2023 at 12:57 PM, BrendAn said:

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"Jabiru 2200" on the cowl.

[RFguy]

right. Oh well, just hope that the engine  or fuel system is pulled apart by someone familiar  so that what happened  1st,  then what happened 2nd etc can get hypothesised. I would love to ask the pilot the 1000 questions. 

[turboplanner]

  On 02/01/2023 at 9:29 PM, RFguy said:

right. Oh well, just hope that the engine  or fuel system is pulled apart by someone familiar  so that what happened  1st,  then what happened 2nd etc can get hypothesised. I would love to ask the pilot the 1000 questions. 

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A lot of people have a problem with just being objective, but that's how we advance.

Wentworth's not a big town, probably a few phone calls and you could talk to the owner.

Edited January 2, 2023 by turboplanner

[Flightrite]

At the end of the day it’s just another Jab engine failure, they are well known for that and there will be more (as long as they’re not mine😉) The guys lived to tell the story, that’s the main thing, the rest will just go into the stat books!

[FlyBoy1960]

  On 02/01/2023 at 9:29 PM, RFguy said:

right. Oh well, just hope that the engine  or fuel system is pulled apart by someone familiar  so that what happened  

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My guess is they will find water in the carb !             Sorry couldn't resist

[turboplanner]

  On 02/01/2023 at 11:07 AM, facthunter said:

Flying on a very hot day is safe enough if you know the planes capability and fly it accordingly. Climb at a higher airspeed etc. Don't wait till a temp goes too high to do something about it.  By then some cool air for you won't go amiss either and don't get dehydrated. Wear the right gear.  Nev

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So you’d ignore what the POH says?

[jackc]

Use the POH as a guide, then  add your own experience and knowledge….

[facthunter]

You don't have to be on any Blanket  limit like that to have to cope with reduced performance. That's what I'm addressing . Are you some kind of frustrated policeman, Turbs?   Nev

Edited January 2, 2023 by facthunter

[turboplanner]

  On 02/01/2023 at 11:06 PM, facthunter said:

You don't have to be on any Blanket  limit like that to have to cope with reduced performance. That's what I'm addressing . Are you some kind of frustrated policeman?   Nev

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No I’m not. I don’t care if you give people BS Information without checking. They’ll be the ones coming after you.

[facthunter]

You obviously don't actually READ what I'm saying . You'd rather have a go.  Nev

[RFguy]

golly you two stop it...

at the end of the day, the PIC makes the call.
If the PIC goes outside the parameters and limits set out in the POH for that airframe then they better be able to convincingly explain their reasoning and method. 

[BirdDog]

Ok... So I am going to add my 2 bobs here, for what it's worth.

 

I have been flying for just over 5 years.  I have about 220 hours of flight.  I have spent time, like most of us, reading forums and participating in discussions etc.  I am always very interested when accidents are reported, trying to understand what happened, and maybe add lessons learnt to my kit bag.

After all that is said and done, personally, I will not step into an aircraft with a Jab engine.  I have been offered flights at fly ins etc, and I have kindly said no.  Why you ask??  Not because someone told me anything bad, or someone suggested they are not good - purely based on my own observations, and how nervous I would feel flying in one.

Maybe that mentality is unfounded - but that is just how I feel.  No offence intended nor implied.  Just how I feel.  Same way I would not spearfish off the rocks near Sydney.  I would be too nervous to get into the water.  Not because it's bad or more dangerous than anything else - just how I feel, and I think we are all entitled to have opinions without offence.

 

Fly safe peeps.

 

[turboplanner]

  On 02/01/2023 at 11:27 PM, facthunter said:

You obviously don't actually READ what I'm saying . You'd rather have a go.  Nev

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I do read what you're saying.

 

For those who haven't seen the warnings over the last couple of decades and will be flying Jabirus, in the POH there are two temperature limits.

 

1. A maximum core temperature after which the body structure begins to lose its strength.

2. An OAT maximum temperature above which engine damage can occur; at that OAT you stay on the ground.

    If you stay under the maximum OAT, you will also be under the maximum core temperature.

 

 

[RFguy]

It's a good reason NOT to paint your Jabiru anything other than glossy WHITE - the glass temperature of the structure could be  approached on a hot day sitting on the ground. 

[facthunter]

Turbs Your first line relates to sitting in the sun. The second point is just NOT correct, particularly the last line.  Heat flow relates to temp difference and MANY other factors  like airflow. which I covered. You've many times called my Posts "BULL$#1t" so knock it off. (Or aren't I allowed to say that?  Nev

[turboplanner]

  On 03/01/2023 at 12:33 AM, facthunter said:

Turbs Your first line relates to sitting in the sun. The second point is just NOT correct, particularly the last line.  Heat flow relates to temp difference and MANY other factors  like airflow. which I covered. You've many times called my Posts "BULL$#1t" so knock it off. (Or aren't I allowed to say that?  Nev

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I would recommend just accepting what what Jabiru is saying as they say it in the book, and if anyone has any doubts about what the book says, recommend they contact Jabiru.

[Flightrite]

  On 03/01/2023 at 12:03 AM, BirdDog said:

Ok... So I am going to add my 2 bobs here, for what it's worth.

 

I have been flying for just over 5 years.  I have about 220 hours of flight.  I have spent time, like most of us, reading forums and participating in discussions etc.  I am always very interested when accidents are reported, trying to understand what happened, and maybe add lessons learnt to my kit bag.

After all that is said and done, personally, I will not step into an aircraft with a Jab engine.  I have been offered flights at fly ins etc, and I have kindly said no.  Why you ask??  Not because someone told me anything bad, or someone suggested they are not good - purely based on my own observations, and how nervous I would feel flying in one.

Maybe that mentality is unfounded - but that is just how I feel.  No offence intended nor implied.  Just how I feel.  Same way I would not spearfish off the rocks near Sydney.  I would be too nervous to get into the water.  Not because it's bad or more dangerous than anything else - just how I feel, and I think we are all entitled to have opinions without offence.

 

Fly safe peeps.

 

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That about sums it up, personal choice, well said👍 The same here, but for me I’d never go flying in a Jab unless I was in command, I value my life a LOT👍