Jab down in Wentworth 2 Jan 23.

[turboplanner]

3 minutes ago, onetrack said:

That's odd. Why does the American Jab POH say maximum ambient operating temperature is 104°F (40°C)?

 

It surely can't be the way the Americans measure everything differently to us? (see page 1-11).

 

https://ussportplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/JSA_SM230SP-A2.pdf

 

 

There may be different OAT limits for different aircraft/engine series

[jackc]

13 minutes ago, Cyrano said:

You may find that the insurance company will beg to differ on intentionally operating outside of the specifications.

Prove intention to operate outside the specs unless the investigation finds beyond a reasonable doubt the the pilot did so.  In respect of Weather conditions, was there a weather station nearby?  Who could prove weather conditions at crash site?  Lots of variables including WHO did the investigation?   I am sure the insurance company would do its best to deny a claim?  Seems to be the way of insurance companies these days…….

[RFguy]

anyway, Pilot of that Jab, if you are listening, we would love to hear the story.

[Cyrano]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

Prove intention to operate outside the specs unless the investigation finds beyond a reasonable doubt the the pilot did so.  In respect of Weather conditions, was there a weather station nearby?  Who could prove weather conditions at crash site?  Lots of variables including WHO did the investigation?   I am sure the insurance company would do its best to deny a claim?  Seems to be the way of insurance companies these days…….

The fact one would consider exposing one's self to such scrutiny reflects poorly on us all. No wonder the insurance premiums are so high. The responsible majority are subsidising the lack of measured forethought of others.

[BrendAn]

just got told someone at wentworth airport watched the jab struggle to get airborne so the oat and weight theory might be right. 

the witness thought there was no way it could stay in the air when he was watching it. and he lives at the airport .

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, Kenlsa said:

I think it’s time

i think he was talking to someone trying to pass him another bong . looks out of it.

[RFguy]

mmm well...
LSA55 -  I have ~ 9 hours in them in dual,  they are not lacking in power- they're quite light  (240kg ish) , I would describe them as a real sports car......

I have taken off ( at Coonamble at OAT = 36 with FULL FUEL (just refueled)  and 2 x PAX) and NO ISSUES  with  good rate of climb.

  even at 40 OAT should get airborne just  fine, so I *guess* some other mitigating factor. compare to something like a J160 which has about the same amount of wing (and similar wing)  and quite a  bit heavier (540) at OAT = 38 and PA = 0, 540kg= climb = 461 fpm,  440kg - 700 fpm.

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by RFguy

[facthunter]

Yes the LSA 55 has quite a zippy performance, normally.  Nev

[jackc]

25 minutes ago, Cyrano said:

The fact one would consider exposing one's self to such scrutiny reflects poorly on us all. No wonder the insurance premiums are so high. The responsible majority are subsidising the lack of measured forethought of others.

Next, Insurance Companies will want in Cockpit video recorders installed in factory built aircraft?  They do it in many road vehicles now. Then home built aircraft will not even be eligible for hull insurance regardless 😞 

I have NO faith in insurance companies, regardless. Read your PDS cover to cover and you will begin to understand.  

[Thruster88]

My 2 cents worth. Clear pics on Facebook show glassy water in all pics indicating light winds. There is a fire truck about 100m behind the aircraft, most likely on the end of runway 35, so takeoff to the north on the shorter runway, could be wrong but seems to fit the pics. Runway 26, 1400 meters, has no obstacles to clear.  Always do a pre takeoff briefing to self. Both runways are sealed now.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Thruster88

[old man emu]

I wonder if this thread would have reached page four if the aircraft involved had been a C-150 or PA28-140.

[RFguy]

For those interested in aircraft accidents and engine fialures, last months kitplanes article is a good one
https://www.kitplanes.com/homebuilt-accidents-passing-the-engine-baton/
 

I would suggest a digital subscription to Kitplanes is an excellent and affordable choice for everybody who finds this article useful.

 

 

 

[RFguy]

59 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I wonder if this thread would have reached page four if the aircraft involved had been a C-150 or PA28-140.

if it was a PA28 then the accident would be investigated thoroughly .
I suspect part of the reason for the speculation in 4 pages here is that in general , in RAaus, the cause of an accident is never truly got to the bottom of ...

[planedriver]

That was an interesting article.

 

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, RFguy said:

if it was a PA28 then the accident would be investigated thoroughly .
I suspect part of the reason for the speculation in 4 pages here is that in general , in RAaus, the cause of an accident is never truly got to the bottom of ...

What is the current RAA procedure?  Is the Pilot required to make a detailed report?

 

[Roscoe]

23 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

What is the current RAA procedure?  Is the Pilot required to make a detailed report?

 

Yes, a Report to RAA.

[turboplanner]

3 minutes ago, Roscoe said:

Yes, a Report to RAA.

Well so far as I see it you could divide this one into possible:

Engine failure - (a) OAT issue (b) other

P&O - failure to climb, also related to temp

           The J170 wing was specifically introduced to get extra lift in hot conditions; this aircraft                      doesn't have that wing.

I'd classify the resulting forced landing as a success.

So there are possibly several important lessons for others if the RAA system throws up the answers to these and any other points.

 

[RFguy]

If I ran for RA board, driving change for the way accident investigation was done would be my #1 bullet.

[facthunter]

If it entailed extra money you wouldn't be popular. Peoples desire for things changes when it hit's their hip pocket. Not all GA accidents are investigated either..  Nev

[onetrack]

I don't think a lot of people understand what goes into thorough accident investigations, particularly ones involving aircraft. There's a shortage of high quality, experienced investigators for a start - keeping in mind that these people have to be drawn from a small pool of highly experienced pilots, or even retired pilots. 

Add in the costs of travelling to (mostly) difficult-to-access sites, the costs of finding and talking to witnesses, the collation of often sizeable amounts of data, videos, photos, etc - then writing up the final report - and you can understand why RA-Aus as a recreational organisation - intent on keeping the cost of aviation down to acceptable levels - doesn't get involved in major examinations of RA crashes.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I too would like to know much more about the engine failure. At the beginning of the take-off run, you know that you have 2 working ignition systems and 2 fuel pumps. AND your engine, if DI'd according to the makers, had compressions on all 4 cylinders.

How could the engine have failed ?

[Bruce Tuncks]

RF guy, lots of us would like for you to be on the raaus board.

I do know of a Jabiru forced landing near Broken Hill. The engine threw an exhaust valve. Since this would rarely happen instantly, I asked the pilot ( I knew him ) about the compressions on the turnover test that morning. He had never heard of this test. Apparently some older instructors, used to impulse mags, (which a Jabiru does not have ) think it is too dangerous to turn an engine and don't teach it or do it themselves.

[old man emu]

 

1 minute ago, onetrack said:

There's a shortage of high quality, experienced investigators

First job qualification for aircraft systems investigators is that the applicant has the technical qualifications and aircraft maintenance experience on type or similar types

There's a terrifying shortage of experienced AMEs an L2s just to maintain the current fleet. The vacancies being left by retirement and other factors are not being filled by the younger generation in number to either maintain current requirements or to handle fleet expansion.

 

So if there's not enough AMEs and L2s to handle the demand for service now, where will you draw the ones needed for investigation come from?

[Thruster88]

17 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I too would like to know much more about the engine failure. At the beginning of the take-off run, you know that you have 2 working ignition systems and 2 fuel pumps. AND your engine, if DI'd according to the makers, had compressions on all 4 cylinders.

How could the engine have failed ?

It has been said this aircraft had only been flown twice in the previous 12 months. Why? If that is true, why the pilot flew in the heat with a passenger in a direction/height that would result in a tree landing if the engine failed is probably the more important question. Alot of RAAus accidents are the result of poor decisions.   

[jackc]

I think I would keep an aviation misdemeanour under wraps from RAA?

If I bent my plane and walked away, I would say nothing because at my age they would probably pull my certificate.   Find a way to blame me and question my future ability over something minor.   Its happened before and it can happen to anyone.   The RAA dont have my trust right now. 

Oid Station Fly In case in point, an RAA staffer spotted taking. covert photos of various aircraft.  He did not make himself readily known to the Aero Club doing marshalling yet he flew there himself, I believe.   

Not wanting to mix with members tell me he was there for another reason?