Victa Airtourer Canopy Sunshade

[facthunter]

I think one would be pretty challenging to handle on the ground.    Isn't the last notch of flap prohibited these  days? Nev

[BrendAn]

Silly question. But how did Victa go from lawnmowers to aircraft. Pretty big jump. Or are they different companies.

[onetrack]

 

[naremman]

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

Pretty ground hugging on a hot day Has anyone gone tailwheel and ditch the heavy nosewheel?  Nev.

Posed that exact question to Henry in Parkes in 1980 Nev. Did nor invoke a positive response. 168 Australian Airtourers and 80 Kiwi variants probably did not give much scope for other iterations. The success of the RV range might indicate there was possibilities that might have been missed.. Coming up 50 years with a convential  Airtourer I would have welcomed a tailwheel option. The Airtourer front leg was I believe drawn from the front end of the Ford Consul motor car. I can't recall too many incidents where the Nosewheel of the Airtourer was a major issue.

 

In hot weather the Airtourer was no orphan with lack of activity on the VS!. I learnt to fly with Narrogin Flying Club that was still dealing with the tragic legacy of four women fatally perishing in a PA28 at Northam. Density Altitude was something we learnt to respect early on in on our training, and in someways appreciated ;earning in February/March. The most of amount of runway I observed being chewed up was a Mooney 201 being demonstrated at Narrogin in February at close to Gross. The then CFI Doug Dawson commented that was not an aircraft for club flying in the WA countryside.

[naremman]

6 hours ago, facthunter said:

I think one would be pretty challenging to handle on the ground.    Isn't the last notch of flap prohibited these  days? Nev

Nev, you are about fifty years behind the times!! The original Airtourers came out with the four stages of flap, and the Victa handling notes of 1962 reflected this. After a number of incidents with the Airtourer abruptly ceasing to fly on landing it was mandated that it was to be restricted to three stages only, with a blank to be riveted over the fourth stage. There was howeve,r provision with appropriate test flying of the particular aircraft that the fourth stage was permitted. My current Flight Manual only refers to flap 12 degrees.

 

When I purchased my Airtourer 100 in 1975 the blank for the fourth stage was no longer  in place,, and I never questioned it, limiting all flap to three stages. I did however use it once at a WA Light Aircraft Championship when I wanted a bi more t of stop, and can attest that it was exceedingly effective.

 

I liken the extra flap to the issue of 40 degrees flap on a Cessna 172M. Ya love the stopping power until the point you wanna do a go around!!

[BrendAn]

9 hours ago, onetrack said:

 

Thanks for that. Good information. 

 

[facthunter]

Merv Richardson wasn't it? A great company and everyone who worked there was proud of it. There was a contest for the design which Henry Millicer won.. The front strut was from a 105 E Anglia. Beech Cessna and Piper  had a lot of influence in those days. The design went to New Zealand and the Victa mower was eventually taken over  by Sunbeam. Add to or correct at will. I'm going from memory. The 2 I flew were Demonstrators flown up from Sydney to West Maitland by John Webber..   Nev

[BrendAn]

59 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Merv Richardson wasn't it? A great company and everyone who worked there was proud of it. There was a contest for the design which Henry Millicer won.. The front strut was from a 105 E Anglia. Beech Cessna and Piper  had a lot of influence in those days. The design went to New Zealand and the Victa mower was eventually taken over  by Sunbeam. Add to or correct at will. I'm going from memory. The 2 I flew were Demonstrators flown up from Sydney to West Maitland by John Webber..   Nev

You just repeated what's In the above video.  A great Aussie success story.

[onetrack]

Naremman - I can't find any mention in any database anywhere of 4 women perishing in a PA-28 at Northam. Do you have any more specific details?

Personally, I can't recall any crash at Northam that has taken 4 lives, but that probably doesn't mean much, with my flagging and ageing memory.

[facthunter]

I really couldn't read that. Merv used to fly a seaplane  Colonial Skimmer???from his home up the coast  (Sydneys Northern coastal suburbs) most days. I knew people who worked for Victa and I flew out of Bankstown a lot  then when I lived and worked in Sydney but I finished my CPL +Instructor at Newcastle in 64.

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

I really couldn't read that. Merv used to fly a seaplane  Colonial Skimmer???from his home up the coast  (Sydneys Northern coastal suburbs) most days. I knew people who worked for Victa and I flew out of Bankstown a lot  then when I lived and worked in Sydney but I finished my CPL +Instructor at Newcastle in 64.

Must have been interesting times back then. 

[facthunter]

In retrospect the last of the best, Lots of good stuff around at a cheap price. Sort of obsolete. Plenty of exwartime pilots around and prewar notables like Nancy Bird-Walton.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

Back to sunshades - This  topic has been discussed befor, on this Forum, - my ingestion then & now is a $15 shear of reflective static cling, that can be purchased from most auto accessory stores (got mine from Autobarn). It cheap, does the job and allows for some see through advisability and is light weight. Cut to size & shape ( to avoid wrinkles be sure to accommodate curvature of canopy )

[facthunter]

Velcro any use?    Nev

[Roundsounds]

15 hours ago, naremman said:

Posed that exact question to Henry in Parkes in 1980 Nev. Did nor invoke a positive response. 168 Australian Airtourers and 80 Kiwi variants probably did not give much scope for other iterations. The success of the RV range might indicate there was possibilities that might have been missed.. Coming up 50 years with a convential  Airtourer I would have welcomed a tailwheel option. The Airtourer front leg was I believe drawn from the front end of the Ford Consul motor car. I can't recall too many incidents where the Nosewheel of the Airtourer was a major issue.

 

In hot weather the Airtourer was no orphan with lack of activity on the VS!. I learnt to fly with Narrogin Flying Club that was still dealing with the tragic legacy of four women fatally perishing in a PA28 at Northam. Density Altitude was something we learnt to respect early on in on our training, and in someways appreciated ;earning in February/March. The most of amount of runway I observed being chewed up was a Mooney 201 being demonstrated at Narrogin in February at close to Gross. The then CFI Doug Dawson commented that was not an aircraft for club flying in the WA countryside.

DCA recorded an accident at Highfield on 27/12/1968 involving a 180HP Arrow (PA28R-180), the aircraft was destroyed. Maybe this is the event?

[RocketShip]

skippydiesel thank you. I had heard of someone using this. Just couldn't find out to much about it.

I never thought of auto shops. I will give it a go.

[facthunter]

The weight of the nose strut  could be advantageously dumped. I think she might be a twitchy thing though. Nev

[rgmwa]

21 minutes ago, RocketShip said:

skippydiesel thank you. I had heard of someone using this. Just couldn't find out to much about it.

I never thought of auto shops. I will give it a go.

I use a couple of these suction cup auto sunshades. They're a few dollars from Supercheap and work quite well:

 

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sca-sca-window-shade---side-static-black-single/223590.html?cgid=SCA01020903#start=1

 

They have a springy metal frame and come folded up in a re-usable plastic bag so you can throw then in the back if it's overcast.

Just make sure the perspex is clean so the suction cups stick. 

 

edit: Just noticed the ones in the link are static, although mine have four suction cups. Maybe they've upgraded since I got them. Might have to go and have another look myself. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by rgmwa

[onetrack]

Roundsounds - Thanks for that crash information, but Highbury is 190kms S of Northam, and there were only 2 fatalities in the crash of VH-CJG.

 

CRASH REPORT:

"Piper PA28-R 180 VH-CJG, 28 Decem­ber 1968 - lnadequate Take-off Length.

Before ferrying the aircraft from a nearby aerodrome to a field at Highbury, Western Australia, the pilot made a ground inspec­tion of the field which was 3,000ft in length, but fifty foot high trees on the eastern boun­dary reduced the effective operating length, for a take-off in that direction, to 1,800 ft.

The pilot, after ferrying the aircraft to the field, made three local flights from it at lower all-up weights than on the flight on which the accident occurred. On two of these flights, the aircraft took off to the East.

Three days later, a flight was com­menced from the same field with the all-up weight close to the maximum permissibie, and on this occasion, the surface wind was from the south-west at about seven knots.

The pilot elected to take off to the East giving the aircraft a tailwind component of about four knots. In these conditions, the minimum effective operating length re­quired by the Flight Manual for take-off was 3,750ft.

After a ground run of more than 2,000ft the aircraft became airborne, climbed steeply and cleared the first line of trees. The port wing then dropped and the aircraft lost height, struck the top of a twenty foot high tree, 628ft beyond the boundary of the field, and crashed to the ground.

The pilot and one passenger were killed, and two other passengers were in­jured. Cause: The pilot did not ensure that, in the existing conditions, the selected flight path was safely within the performance capabilities of the aircraft."

 

In that DCA list of crashes between 1956 and 1968, there are only 3 air crashes recorded within the Northam region, and none were fatal.

One was a DH-82, one was a Cessna 180, and one was a PA-25 Pawnee - and all were single pilot crashes with little injuries.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by onetrack

[skippydiesel]

Some options;

 

https://autobarn.com.au/ab/Autobarn-Category/Brands/Streetwize/STATIC-CLING-SUNSHADE-BLACK/p/PR18387

https://www.autobarn.net/static-cling-sunshade.html

https://www.bunnings.com.au/perma-child-safety-static-cling-car-shade-2-pack_p0348261

http://www.haigh.com.au/products/interior-accessories/sun-shades/static-sun-shades-detail

[facthunter]

With a tailwind take off the freestream wind is stronger than where you took off from so you have to  accelerate that extra amount as well. To go over trees you've lost any ability to use ground effect.   Nev

[RocketShip]

42 minutes ago, rgmwa said:

I use a couple of these suction cup auto sunshades. They're a few dollars from Supercheap and work quite well:

 

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sca-sca-window-shade---side-static-black-single/223590.html?cgid=SCA01020903#start=1

 

They have a springy metal frame and come folded up in a re-usable plastic bag so you can throw then in the back if it's overcast.

Just make sure the perspex is clean so the suction cups stick. 

 

edit: Just noticed the ones in the link are static, although mine have four suction cups. Maybe they've upgraded since I got them. Might have to go and have another look myself. 

These look good. Will work well.

[RocketShip]

12 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Some options;

 

https://autobarn.com.au/ab/Autobarn-Category/Brands/Streetwize/STATIC-CLING-SUNSHADE-BLACK/p/PR18387

https://www.autobarn.net/static-cling-sunshade.html

https://www.bunnings.com.au/perma-child-safety-static-cling-car-shade-2-pack_p0348261

http://www.haigh.com.au/products/interior-accessories/sun-shades/static-sun-shades-detail

Lots of options, thanks again. 

[naremman]

8 hours ago, Roundsounds said:

DCA recorded an accident at Highfield on 27/12/1968 involving a 180HP Arrow (PA28R-180), the aircraft was destroyed. Maybe this is the event?

Hi Roundsounds/

 

From memory it would have been either 1971/72. There was a Fly-in at Northam, possibly for the opening of the currently located airstrip.

 

The aircraft as a PA28 /140 from the Narrogin Flying Club which was to take part in a womens' fly past. The pilot was  Bev Jeffery, who had just attained her licence, and had three passengers on board..

 

As I recall she was following a Tiger and Chippy who commenced their take off run from where the taxiway enters the runway, forsaking the  extra 600'  back to the threshold. The preceeding got away OK, but the Cherokee with 4 up on a hot summers day was a different proposition. It impacted the trees just beyond the upwind threshold of 14, burnt, with no survivors.

 

I have been involved with both Narrogin and Northam over the years and it is an incident that has not been forgotten by either aviation community. John Douglas was the then CFI at Narrogin, and JD was fervent that everybody took lessons from this this particular incident. Doug Dawson could bang the same same drum just as loudly.. In all the times I have departed 14 at Northam has there not  been an occasion that I have not backtracked and launched from the threshold!!

 

I do recall that this incident was covered in the Air Safety Digest.

 

Ironically, a Bev Jeffery Memorial Trophy was established by NFC for the best student attaining a RPPL, which my late first wife won in 1982, learning to fly in our Airtourer, and a replica trophy still is on display on the mantlepiece alongside my silverware.

 

This still gives you a bit more homework Roundsounds, but a little bit more to go on.

 

Safe flying.

[naremman]

9 hours ago, Roundsounds said:

DCA recorded an accident at Highfield on 27/12/1968 involving a 180HP Arrow (PA28R-180), the aircraft was destroyed. Maybe this is the event?

Hi Roundsounds/

 

From memory it would have been either 1971/72. There was a Fly-in at Northam, possibly for the opening of the currently located airstrip.

 

The aircraft as a PA28 /140 from the Narrogin Flying Club which was to take part in a womens' fly past. The pilot was  Bev Jeffery, who had just attained her licence, and had three passengers on board..

 

As I recall she was following a Tiger and Chippy who commenced their take off run from where the taxiway enters the runway, forsaking the  extra 600'  back to the threshold. The preceeding got away OK, but the Cherokee with 4 up on a hot summers day was a different proposition. It impacted the trees just beyond the upwind threshold of 14, burnt, with no survivors.

 

I have been involved with both Narrogin and Northam over the years and it is an incident that has not been forgotten by either aviation community. John Douglas was the then CFI at Narrogin, and JD was fervent that everybody took lessons from this this particular incident. Doug Dawson could bang the same same drum just as loudly.. In all the times I have departed 14 at Northam has there not  been an occasion that I have not backtracked and launched from the threshold!!

 

I do recall that this incident was covered in the Air Safety Digest.

 

Ironically, a Bev Jeffery Memorial Trophy was established by NFC for the best student attaining a RPPL, which my late first wife won in 1982, learning to fly in our Airtourer, and a replica trophy still is on display on the mantlepiece alongside my silverware.

 

This still gives you a bit more homework Roundsounds, but a little bit more to go on.

 

Safe flying.