Light aircraft flips on French Island 21/01/23.

[red750]

A Vans RV-9A flipped on landing at French Island on 21 Jan 2023. The pilot was flown by helicopter to Royal Melbourne Hospital with undefined injuries. It is believed the aircraft departed from Tooradin.

 

[facthunter]

Not good.. Any more news?  Nev

[turboplanner]

The nosewheel looked to be against the floor.

[Mike Gearon]

Pilot is okay. Passenger had a few injuries. Airlifted to hospital. Passenger is now fine.

 

Strong variable tail wind and yes the nose collapsed. If that nose wheel assembly was stronger it would have been a different story. Apparently this is an RV problem.

[red750]

From Channel 2 News

 

[rgmwa]

They're OK as long as the nosewheel doesn't catch on an obstruction or drops into a hole and digs in, or you don't wheelbarrow the landing.  The nosewheel on most RV's is smaller than the mains although on the RV-12 they are all the same size.  Fortunate that the injuries don't appear too serious.

Edited January 21, 2023 by rgmwa

[poteroo]

1 hour ago, Mike Gearon said:

 Apparently this is an RV problem.

Only if you don't look after it. The 9A has such capable pitch control that it can be taxied nosewheel off. No need to have it touch until well under 35 kts.  12 years owning one.

happy days,

[pylon500]

And to think that pilots build/buy RV 'As' (with a nose wheel) because they worry about a tail dragger tipping over...

[Love to fly]

39 minutes ago, pylon500 said:

And to think that pilots build/buy RV 'As' (with a nose wheel) because they worry about a tail dragger tipping over...

Doubt that's why pilots build or buy them. Certainly wasn't a consideration for us. 

[kgwilson]

Nosewheels on most aircraft are a weak point especially in rough landing spots. That's why Bush planes are taildraggers.

[Mike Gearon]

 Could have been any one of us and he’s beat up over his friend being hurt. He did a great job pulling the passenger from the aircraft. The good part was when his friend called from hospital and was okay. Well, very okay. They must have started using the good drugs.

 

While I wasn’t impressed with the Vans nose gear (rans S21 is much thicker) the steel tube (roll bar?)  above the screen looked like it could have taken a lot more abuse just fine.

 

 

[facthunter]

IF you make the nosewheel stronger the bulkhead  will break. ALL nosewheels are relatively weak  and not there for extreme loads.  It's obviously gone over at a low speed. You'd have to be there to know what the circumstances were.  Nev

[Yenn]

At low speed there would not be enough energy to cause a turn over.

[facthunter]

 A tail wind can lift the tail at zero speed if it's gusty.  The plane appears to be undamaged apart from the nose strut. Nev

[onetrack]

What facthunter is saying is that as the speed dropped off, there was only just enough energy left for it to flip over. A flip over at high speed would have crushed a lot more components, and bent or fractured the fuselage.

[Chris SS]

17 hours ago, Mike Gearon said:

Apparently this is an RV problem.

It’s not. It’s a pilot problem. Thousands of RVs fly thousands of landings every day. If you treat them properly this doesn’t happen.

 

The biggest killer of RV nosewheels is too much speed on final, followed by thinking you’re finished landing before the aeroplane has come to a complete stop.

[facthunter]

Ones fitted with  a Subaru motor had a very weak nosewheel as there was limited room for it. Near the sea you get tricky  winds, Remember where you put the elevator when taxiiing downwind?  Anyhow it could have been a rabbit hole. Braking transfers weight to the nosewheel also. No one crashes on purpose..  Nev

[turboplanner]

Does anyone know what the strip surface was like?

 

[Mike Gearon]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

IF you make the nosewheel stronger the bulkhead  will break. ALL nosewheels are relatively weak  and not there for extreme loads.  It's obviously gone over at a low speed. You'd have to be there to know what the circumstances were.  Nev

Yes, I was there. I’d like to stop replaying the incident in my head. Yes, it went over at a low speed. Damn close to not going over which would have been much the preferred outcome.
 

Cessna make a damn fine nose wheel assembly. I can’t see why the lighter categories are all following each other with the pissy assembly. It’d be easy enough to have it on a pivot and shock and spread the load between firewall and fuselage a little aft. Combination of shock able to work. Triangulation and spread load.

 

 

[Mike Gearon]

25 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Does anyone know what the strip surface was like?

 

Very good. It’s quite flat where the incident happened. Tail wind was a major factor. Nothing wrong with the runway. 

[kgwilson]

Cessna nose legs fail too. The 172 & above have pretty beefy Oleo strut noselegs but they are heavy complex and expensive.

[facthunter]

The rocks hitting the chrome oleo and making the seals leak is the costly part. ALL nosewheels have to be treated carefully. You should never let them arrive first or fall on the runway after the mainwheels contact.  Nev

[Love to fly]

Really glad pilot and pax are okay.  Very experienced & competent pilot so I'm guessing there were other factors.  RV's are built to be either tailwheel or nosewheel, with the decision being made pre/during the build.  A few have been converted afterwards.  Landing profile in an A isn't dissimilar to that of a tailwheel and the nose wheel is definitely not designed to be landed on.  But then no nosewheel is.  For a while, during a particular period in time, nosewheel collapses at Moorabbin were almost common.  None of these were in RV's.

[turboplanner]

2 minutes ago, Love to fly said:

For a while, during a particular period in time, nosewheel collapses at Moorabbin were almost common.  None of these were in RV's.

When I've seen a series of failures it's been from an Instructor teaching his/her students to do miltary point and shoot approaches where they usually hit first with the nosewheel, with predictable results.

 

 

[Thruster88]

3 hours ago, Mike Gearon said:

Very good. It’s quite flat where the incident happened. Tail wind was a major factor. Nothing wrong with the runway. 

Was landing in the opposite direction possible or not due to slope? As an RV nosewheel operator I am curious if they were able to break the canopy and escape without outside help.