First flight Zenith 750 Electric

[facthunter]

Wool was IT back in the 50's. Tamworth had more RR cars than Toorak. I recall  A Pound for a Lb of wool. They nearly all had aircraft.   Nev

[onetrack]

This is starting to sound like a Country Party whinge. I've seen very few bankrupt farmers, most got their land for next to nothing, and today, it's worth millions - and it's still going up and up endlessly, in value.

I worked as a contractor for probably over a thousand farmers and they nearly all wanted their earthmoving jobs done for next to nothing. Some would even tell me the price they wanted it done for, which was usually about 20% below my break-even costs. All those farmers are now worth at least $3M-$5M, and some have their farms on the market for $20M. Not a bad little "win" if you can get it. Nobody ever gave me a single square metre of land for less than the going high-value market rate.

[Marty_d]

This is fascinating gents, but not sure what it's got to do with the topic.

Every time I see something new in a topic about an electric CH750 I get all excited,  but then discover it's something else entirely. 

[Litespeed]

As a test bed, it's not too bad even if it's a flying wall.

 

Prove the system on a proven airframe always is cheaper and safer.

The range sucks and seems way to low.

The CH should have plenty of space and weight allowed for a much better battery setup.

 

To be able to easily maintain and charge via solar on a property can provide huge cost savings given the cost of fuel and spares to a remote property. Esp. if floods wreck roads.

 

Batteries and power systems are leaping ahead and in 5 years we should expect double the current range as a minimum. Then it's about optimised airframes to suit the mission roles, slippery is much better but the penalty of draggy airframes will eventually be offset by development of clever solutions to low speed control versus a speedy airframe.

 

I can certainly envisage a future where even a farmers first choice will be his electric STOL charged by solar and topped up by solar cells integrated into the wing surface.

 

Another area of development that will bring big benefits in power density and packing is engine systems. Currently the motor is just a small weight in the overall package including wiring and controller. Now small powerful motors are been developed for cars as in wheel power systems-. Everything bar the battery is in the wheel hub, a huge weight and complexity saving. Any vehicle with a wheel hub can be easily converted to electric. The potential for aircraft is a fundamental change in packaging ability. Anywhere on a airframe becomes possible and hybrid generation is much easier.

 

This design should bring down costs for engine systems and weight substantially. As the in wheel design is relatively heavy even though it does include braking, the penalty is unsprung weight for handling. This will drive development for even smaller, lighter and cheaper between car makers. From this we can only win with billions spent yearly on electric stuff relevant to aircraft.

 

No need for hundreds of kilos of heavy motors, gearbox,drive shafts, mounts,  controllers, heavy loom and big cooling needs. 

Just four wheels, a skateboard style chassis battery pack and add body of choice. The design choices open up like never before as do the potential cost, efficiency and weight reductions.

 

Currently cars, trucks,buses and aircraft are built on the old paradigms just electric motored, this is the next step.

 

It's a crap yankee video and sounds AI.

I will find a better one that doesn't induce vomiting 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Litespeed

[Litespeed]

A better video and a lovely SAAB concept 

 

 

 

This shows the motor idea, naturally a Aero version would be lighter and not need actual braking. 

 

Note the power of 120 HP but a massive 1200 Nm plus of torque boggles the mind and could lead to fun with adjustable in flight props and wild climb rates but efficient cruise speeds. The available working effort of the engine at any power setting is a step change potentially. HP means nothing without torque and that's a lot of Clydesdales.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Litespeed

[Thruster88]

There is a reason why Tesla and all the many other manufacturers of electric vehicles have not gone with in wheel motor "technology".  First it is not technology. Unfortunately there is this thing called unsprung weight, best avoided.  

[onetrack]

Not a Zenith 750, but Marty might have some interest in this South Australian electric aviation hopeful. The California-based Amprius is making big noises about the technology advances in its silicon anode battery.

 

https://showcasesa.com.au/south-australian-business-achieves-milestone-towards-producing-australias-first-light-sport-electric-aircraft/

 

https://amprius.com/

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by onetrack

[Litespeed]

Agreed, unsprung weight is the big issue as far as handling and suppleness. Much smaller axial flux designs with huge power are available and the development race will lead to ever smaller and lighter for every market segment.

 

Much smaller and lower power ones will also become normal, not everyone needs 480 hp through 4 wheels.

Redundancy also becomes a issue as any of four can get you home. The disadvantages of unsprung weight are relevant but will be mitigated by improved design and the eventual adoption of full electric braking. Modern cars use big heavy discs on big heavy wheels and tyres and SUVs and utes are everywhere. Not candidates to worry too much about handling.

 

Watch the video, with full torque vectoring to all 4 wheels the handling is wonderful. Plus it does 1000 km from the ability to have a huge 165kwh battery at reasonable weight and size. That's a very big deal at any range scale. Consumers will happily jump in bar sporty drivers but eventually them as well.

 

The designs will, I expect change over time but the potential is there.

[skippydiesel]

On 06/02/2023 at 6:11 PM, facthunter said:

WE ARETHE EPIDEMIC and It's all happened in the recent past AND still happening You know what causes it. Get real about contraception. Churches attitude is catastrophe. Nev

I stand to be corrected, however I believe organised religions are all about control, hence the brainwashing on reproduction, food, morality/ethics, pathways to life after death, etc. To have real influence you need as many supporters as possible - reproduction & wealth.

While the major religions have historically delivered many benefits (education, medical, moral/ethical standards, etc) their continued impact/influence on the World is now negative  - they are still behind many of our wars.  All to often have special tax exemptions (0 tax) and have undue influence on Government policy.

[facthunter]

Indeed. The "Go forth and Multiply" order is not helpful in having a good standard of living.  Nev

[danny_galaga]

Don't worry about the motors, they are already, what, 90% efficient? It's the batteries where the next big leap needs to be. There is some hopeful news regarding sodium batteries. That should bring the cost down a lot. And increase safety. Weight is of course the next big issue to tackle...

[Red]

On 10/10/2023 at 9:44 AM, Litespeed said:

As a test bed, it's not too bad even if it's a flying wall.

 

Prove the system on a proven airframe always is cheaper and safer.

The range sucks and seems way to low.

The CH should have plenty of space and weight allowed for a much better battery setup.

 

To be able to easily maintain and charge via solar on a property can provide huge cost savings given the cost of fuel and spares to a remote property. Esp. if floods wreck roads.

 

Batteries and power systems are leaping ahead and in 5 years we should expect double the current range as a minimum. Then it's about optimised airframes to suit the mission roles, slippery is much better but the penalty of draggy airframes will eventually be offset by development of clever solutions to low speed control versus a speedy airframe.

 

I can certainly envisage a future where even a farmers first choice will be his electric STOL charged by solar and topped up by solar cells integrated into the wing surface.

 

Another area of development that will bring big benefits in power density and packing is engine systems. Currently the motor is just a small weight in the overall package including wiring and controller. Now small powerful motors are been developed for cars as in wheel power systems-. Everything bar the battery is in the wheel hub, a huge weight and complexity saving. Any vehicle with a wheel hub can be easily converted to electric. The potential for aircraft is a fundamental change in packaging ability. Anywhere on a airframe becomes possible and hybrid generation is much easier.

 

This design should bring down costs for engine systems and weight substantially. As the in wheel design is relatively heavy even though it does include braking, the penalty is unsprung weight for handling. This will drive development for even smaller, lighter and cheaper between car makers. From this we can only win with billions spent yearly on electric stuff relevant to aircraft.

 

No need for hundreds of kilos of heavy motors, gearbox,drive shafts, mounts,  controllers, heavy loom and big cooling needs. 

Just four wheels, a skateboard style chassis battery pack and add body of choice. The design choices open up like never before as do the potential cost, efficiency and weight reductions.

 

Currently cars, trucks,buses and aircraft are built on the old paradigms just electric motored, this is the next step.

 

It's a crap yankee video and sounds AI.

I will find a better one that doesn't induce vomiting 

Only downside I can see with motors incorporated into the wheel is they hugely increase unsprung weight which has a negative effect on the the suspension.

[Litespeed]

The unsprung weight is a issue, but with development and the use of full electro magnetic suspension instead of normal strut/ spring plus  suspension arms and current heavy hub/ disc, caliper setup etc it might come out not having a significantly higher number.

 

It won't be for full sports cars  but has quite a bit of potential. Various evolutions of the idea will take hold.

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Electro regenerative braking cuts normal Brake wear.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

On 18/06/2024 at 6:45 AM, Red said:

Only downside I can see with motors incorporated into the wheel is they hugely increase unsprung weight which has a negative effect on the the suspension.

Interesting! Speculation:

Motors in the wheels delivers;

True  4X4 without the need for complex systems to overcome torsional wind up 

Potential for each wheels traction to be controlled by the "drive" computer = Much better acceleration, safer cornering, braking and control on sub optimal surfaces (oil/gravel/ice)

Places the weight of the vehicle were it needs to be for optimum traction and minimal body roll

Potential for optimum body design/shape to minimise drag, while maximising internal space/layout

Zero transmission efficiency loss

Simplifies construction (cost efficiencies) and same basic motor/wheel may be used across many diffrent body styles.

 

 

 

[Area-51]