Seaplane crash jumpinpin. 26/01/2023

[BrendAn]

These days stat write offs are repaired and exported if they are desirable models.  Mustangs are popular. I think they can be registered in NZ and the middle east.

[facthunter]

I think the comparison only goes so far. Economic write offs are easy to reach with road vehicles. The repair costs only have to be about 1/2 the value insured and the Insurer can pay you out and keep the car  unless you have some other agreement. The vehicle may well be of some extra value other than a as a form of transport. Historical rarity. Planes can be restored from absolute rubbish and the result may be anything from a static exhibit to a full working  as good (or better ) than when new.. The repaired/restored standard has to pass muster in it's own right. I don't think WE NEED proscriptive formula's for aircraft. The log books should contain what is needed to make decisions and include thorough inspections as a matter of course and every case is different, potentially. ANY Floatplane/seaplane would require more extensive inspections if it's made of  metals predominately. Planes that are never hangared similarly unless stored in  suitable deserts and priced accordingly. Beware of what you wish for.. Caveat Emptor. Don't expect the bureaucracy to do the work for you.  Nev

Edited January 29, 2023 by facthunter

[old man emu]

I suppose that a SRO would be identified by its VIN, and that VIN could not be used again for a registered vehicle.However, that just means that the chassis/body unit is only worth its weight at scrap metal prices. Anything non-electrical should be recoverable and resaleable. There has for many, many years been a system by which motor vehicle dismantlers can inventory each recovered item from a vehicle and those records can be examined by law enforcement. 

 

As for submersion in water being cause for SRO, I wonder what would happen if your EH Holden or XP Falcon went for a swim, would they fail the immersion rule?

[onetrack]

OME, I understand that to record a vehicle on the the Written Off Vehicle Register, it must be less than 15 years old, calculated from the day it is written off. The authorities obviously think a vehicle over 15 yrs old has little value.

 

https://www.transport.wa.gov.au/licensing/write-off-a-vehicle.asp

[planedriver]

Spot on onetrack. The VIN plates of the old Torana's were simply held on with easily removed pop-rivets. Hense many an old rusted out bomb still fetched good money from someone who simply wanted the VIN plates.

[spenaroo]

Oh man, used to deal with this quite a bit with my old job as a parts interpreter/workshop adviser for Harley/Ducati.
did all the quotes and dealing with the insurance assessors
 

so many people buying wrecks at auctions and not knowing what was required - the days of the cheap repair and re-register are long gone.
Stat write-off is better termed as Un-economical write off. usually with parts and the price of the auction  value of the vehicle…. its worth more then a new one.
their whole business is minimizing loss, no idea why people still have the mentality of it being cheaper to repair a car then buy one in good condition.

used to have it about once a month where someone would come in wanting a new frame for the Harley...
"cool, what's your VIN number. ill need the neck of the frame where its stamped cut out and brought in - so we can get a replacement with the same details."
only to be told that its a wreck they bought at auction - and needs a new VIN. which they fail to understand that we cant just get a new frame with a different VIN...

Ducati was an interesting case because the bikes are special.
numbered bikes (normally 500 to 1000 built worldwide) could get up to 3/4 of the value before being written off by insurance (and then the wrecks would usually go overseas to be rebuilt and registered).
new models were in such high demand that minor damage (literally a drop needing side fairings) would write it off, as they got such high amounts at auction for the bikes.
(literally had people come in puffed up as they bought a wreck for 20k in the auction, buy 6k in parts to get it ready for inspection.... and then see the demo we have on the floor is being sold for 25k)
 

Edited January 29, 2023 by spenaroo

[spenaroo]

oh and if you see a custom bike for sale - just needs registering.....
chances are that it cant be registered, plenty of people buying wrecks as a starting point, because they are changing everything anyway....
only to find out that it has to be original parts to go through the inspection report, same with repairs that "just needs inspection" i.e. I don't have the paper trail for every part - a requirement to be passed off.

I have heard of people getting around it with having the VIN crossed out and registering it as an ICV. but thats a whole different ballgame

(edit to above repairable write off, is uneconomical - just noticed it and cant edit as timed out. stat write-off is dead, end of story)

Edited January 30, 2023 by spenaroo

[Blueadventures]

On 28/1/2023 at 10:37 AM, facthunter said:

Ending up immersed in salt water means it's really a write off. If it's not further damaged in the extrication the corrosion will be still be hard to control.    Nev

There are some tricky liquids out there.  We’re doing work with a ship and engine room has about 7 meters of water in it and when divers have plugged the source they will commence pumping out and a team will be there to apply a liquid to preserve the engine and all electrics etc.  They say you can run an angle grinder and place into the liquid and it will remain running.  Will be expensive stuff.  Not applicable to this recovery as already out of water.

[facthunter]

I don't know of anything that neutralises salt. Nev

[spenaroo]

yeah there is a few products I remember from the jet-skis
lanolin spray before use, and salt-away after use

[onetrack]

There are plenty of chemicals that will neutralise salt, and a solution of baking soda (Sodium bicarbonate - NaHCO₃) is one of the simplest and best.

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by onetrack

[facthunter]

Just give me the chemical reaction then. Sodium bi carbonate  and Sodium chloride (Na Cl) will not react with each other It's good for battery terminals but that involves sulphuric acid.. Salt is like cancer. Look what it does to cars when put on roads to combat ice and your motorbike if you go to the beach for a swim a bit . I've also seen what happens to seaplanes in a salt environment.  Nev

[facthunter]

SALT makes moisture into  an electrolite and dissimilar metals and some alloys work like batteries and corrode  rapidly. Magnesium will corrode in no time at all unless it's treated with chromic acid. Sacrificial anodes can work in some situations.  Nev

[FlyBoy1960]

"Sacrificial anodes can work in some situations"

That must be why i maintain my good looks, and my wife gets older !

[facthunter]

Maintain that situation and you can rename your avatar TOYBOY 2023. or Peter PAN PAN PAN..  Nev

[onetrack]

There is no direct chemical reaction between baking soda and salt (NaCl). But with water involved in the solutions (using a solution of baking soda, and salty water), you have added another chemical compound (H₂O) - and the salt has already started to react chemically with metals such as steel and aluminium, forming metal oxides - which are moderately unstable corrosion compounds - and it is the corrosion compounds you're trying to stop or alter.

The baking soda cleans up the corrosive compounds that have formed, or started to form, when the salt has reacted with the metals. I should've been clearer with my wording in my previous post, and put in "neutralise salt corrosion".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_bicarbonate#:~:text=Cleaning agent,-Sodium bicarbonate is&text=A manufacturer recommends a paste,water solutions can corrode steel.

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by onetrack

[Old Koreelah]

Too late for the screws i used to attach my magnesium salt pool’s outlet window: big rusty blobs.

Should have used proper stainless.

[spenaroo]

all of this stuff is only really as good as the access available.
seen plenty of spark plugs corroded into the heads of ski's because the boot/cap in the well prevents it from properly getting treated when cleaned.
same with the pulleys on supercharger belts - hard to get to so commonly corrode and seize. despite owners using all the correct products and washings.

by the same token I know of sunk ski's that have been revived. but they are usually 2 stroke stand-ups. so I believe engines were stripped down and soaked.

[facthunter]

Some oil  friction additives react badly to moisture. The stripping and cleaning has to be done as quickly as possible down to  each individual thread and hose  to metal surface . The labour costs are  high and make most attempts uneconomic. IF your time doesn't mean much and you know what you are doing then go ahead . Nev

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

Just give me the chemical reaction then. Sodium bi carbonate  and Sodium chloride (Na Cl) will not react with each other It's good for battery terminals but that involves sulphuric acid.. Salt is like cancer. Look what it does to cars when put on roads to combat ice and your motorbike if you go to the beach for a swim a bit . I've also seen what happens to seaplanes in a salt environment.  Nev

I remember the old man telling he was working at lakes entrance when big sheets of paint started falling off a trailer nearby. Someone was welding on it with a DC welder. Why would that happen.

[fallowdeer]

Times have changed. Remember working in Timor 2007/08 watching Aussie Army recovery crew retrieving a Landcruiser been totally submerged in fresh water river for a few days. Winched out and fully operational again two days later. No electronics in that truck…

[spenaroo]

21 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Some oil  friction additives react badly to moisture. The stripping and cleaning has to be done as quickly as possible down to  each individual thread and hose  to metal surface . The labour costs are  high and make most attempts uneconomic. IF your time doesn't mean much and you know what you are doing then go ahead . Nev

and that's why insurance basically writes off any boat or ski that is sunk instantly.
they have to guarantee for the life of the repair

[facthunter]

I really don't know. You only need a good earth on the frame somewhere to weld OK. There must be a field associated with arc welding. It's not recommended to be close with a defibrillator/ pacemaker.  Nev

[facthunter]

  It's similar to burning a wiring loom in a car or having RATS eat it. Unless you replace the Lot, it's issues  forever with modern stuff..  Nev

[BrendAn]

32 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I really don't know. You only need a good earth on the frame somewhere to weld OK. There must be a field associated with arc welding. It's not recommended to be close with a defibrillator/ pacemaker.  Nev

They reckon AC welders don't cause any trouble