ADS-B Grant

[skippydiesel]

I would like to benefit from the offer, by the Federal Gov., to assist in the cost of installing an ADS-B transponder in my new Sonex.

Early in the application, this form comes up -"A signed declaration by an approved installer using the template provided on business.gov.au."

As the builder of the aircraft, I have installed all the avionics - does this  make me ineligible?

Note; The system has been commissioned/initialised by a CASA approved service provider.

Have any of the Forum members successfully applied for this grant ?

If you have , perhaps you would give me some "tips" on how to proceed/avoid any pitfalls

Edited February 10, 2023 by skippydiesel

[Kyle Communications]

If you are the builder then you sign off on it no drama.  I did exactly that and got the grant. I biought the Uavionix Tailbeacon X with the AV-30 and cost was $8070...the govt fella paid $4035 into my account after 6 weeks

 

[skippydiesel]

Thanks Kyle - I was concerned that I might , as a home builder, have fallen at almost the first hurdle.

[old man emu]

Put anymore crap in the plane and it won't get off the ground!

[IBob]

OME, in this instance, it aint crap:
The subsidised rollout of ADS-B in NZ has been under way for 2 years now. And while the #1 eyeball needs to remain our first defence against midairs, a common experience has been this: our ADS-B is showing us aircraft out there that we haven't seen. And furthermore, even armed with the ADSB-B data on location, height and direction, it can still be helluva hard to see 'em.
I was initially reluctant to install the gear, but my view now is that we need all the tools at our disposal.

Not convinced? Consider this from a study by Andrews, J.W., Unalerted Air-to-Air Visual Acquisition. 1991, Lincoln Laboratory,
Massachusetts Institute of Technology: Lexington, MA. p. 1-21.

 

"In a striking illustration of this point, Andrews performed a study in which unexpected
airborne intercepts were deliberately arranged during cross-country flights by 24 general
aviation pilots. Pilots were accompanied by a second (safety) pilot, and were asked to call
out all sighted traffic as soon as they saw it. Pilots were informed that the aim of the study
was to “add to our knowledge concerning how VFR pilots actually fly”, and to “determine
how you allocate your work-load resources”. A total of 64 intercept encounters
were arranged. Twenty eight of these intercepts were not seen, representing a miss-rate of
43.8%. Because pilots were aware that their performance was being monitored, it is
reasonable to assume they were making an active effort to maintain an active and vigilant
look-out. Despite these efforts, pilots failed to see another approaching aircraft on more
than 40% of occasions."

[Old Koreelah]

Spot on, IBob.

I have 20/20 vision but still find it hard to see other aircraft. The iPad warns me about traffic nearby and where to look. 
 

At our monthly club BBQ this morning this topic came up. Very easy for all this technology to keep our eyes inside the cockpit, but a disciplined scanning regime should be about 80% outside, a scan of instruments, then check the iPad screen for nearby aircraft. 
 

One of our regulars has registered his aircraft’s nickname on his SkyEcho, so it comes up on people’s screens rather than some boring numbers or letters than hardy anyone will see, remember or use. Much better.
 

In other news, I just this minute finally completed my application for a rebate!

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, IBob said:

OME, in this instance, it aint crap:

I was taking a shot at Skippy, not the product. Of late he's that plane of his has been giving him nightmares.

[kgwilson]

Returning home from Palmers Island on Aust day I( noticed an aircraft pop up on the screen of my phone (didn't have my tablet that day) & it was on a converging track & we were cruising at about the same speed. I couldn't read the small print on the phone screen so asked my passenger to check the rego & altitude. After fumbling around, locating his glasses & checking it had got quite close & we were nearing the 10 NM lines for both Grafton & South Grafton. It was a C172 & was at 1200 feet. We were at 2500 feet. My passenger looked & looked & I took plently of glances & then we finally spotted it way below. I made my 10 NM call & the 172 made one a minute or so later, tracking to Grafton at 1200. He flew almost directly under us.

 

If I'd been on my own I doubt that I would have seen it at all. So far at YSGR there are only 4 of us with SE2s. A Mooney owner here spent $5-6k on ADSB out from his mode S but has No ADSB in so is also getting a SE2 as it is the least expensive ADSB in option even without the subsidy.

[Old Koreelah]

2 hours ago, kgwilson said:

…If I'd been on my own I doubt that I would have seen it at all.

Kevin I envy you blokes with an extra pair of eyes to help.

Good thing my little one-seater is no speedster, because 85kt keeps me busy enough. Another reason those supersonic warplanes need a sharp yound pilot.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Gliders have a much higher risk of a mid-air because there can be many gliders in the same thermal. They use Flarms which are gps/computer radio tx and rx. They cost less than $1000 each.

Does anybody know the reason why they have been rejected by CASA? My personal opinion has been that flarms are just too cheap to be liked by bureaucrats.

Not that I have ever been near a mid-air myself, the sky is really big compared to our planes. Flarms sure do alert you to all sorts of things you never noticed before, so I suppose they are a good idea. 

In two mid-air collisions I know the details  of, they would have prevented one but not the other. ( the "other" was a gaggle of gliders which had left a thermal. they flew into what was probably just a hint of lift, it lifted the RH wing of one glider and the LH wing of the other, and they turned towards each other...  bang! )

[kgwilson]

The SE2 is configured for the Flarm frequency in Europe but not here. Why would CASA do anything remotely logical? They probably don't have anyone who understands Flarm & it was easier to not have to deal with it. There was some discussion around this on another Thread.

[kgwilson]

Found it. An expert explanation of FLARM as used in Australia from member Plantain.

 

https://www.recreationalflying.com/topic/38667-apparently-midair-at-gympie-at-3pm-today-91122/page/6/#comment-535885

Edited February 12, 2023 by kgwilson

[Kenlsa]

3 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Gliders have a much higher risk of a mid-air because there can be many gliders in the same thermal. They use Flarms which are gps/computer radio tx and rx. They cost less than $1000 each.

Does anybody know the reason why they have been rejected by CASA? My personal opinion has been that flarms are just too cheap to be liked by bureaucrats.

Not that I have ever been near a mid-air myself, the sky is really big compared to our planes. Flarms sure do alert you to all sorts of things you never noticed before, so I suppose they are a good idea. 

In two mid-air collisions I know the details  of, they would have prevented one but not the other. ( the "other" was a gaggle of gliders which had left a thermal. they flew into what was probably just a hint of lift, it lifted the RH wing of one glider and the LH wing of the other, and they turned towards each other...  bang! )

5 k range Bruce, not far enough when they require a 10nm call to inform others of your intentions 

Ken

[skippydiesel]

I asked RAAu's about the ADSB grant & home builds - refereed back to the Gov agency, from which I had come - bureaucracy!

[Kyle Communications]

Skippy...no its the process. RAA have nothing to do with it except promote it..if you want to take advantage of the offer of 50%..YOU have to do the legwork dealing with the bureaucrats

[Bruce Tuncks]

Flying into Gawler, I was taught to call up at about 5k out " Because if you call too early, they will disregard the call and anyway they will have forgotten you by the time you arrive"

But thanks Ken. I like that they had some reasoning after all.

[Kyle Communications]

Our airfield is or can be very busy. I always call at 10nm to let all know what direction and height I am coming in from then call again at 3 miles letting all know how I will approach whether direct into downwind of crosswicd...then normal landing calls etc. That way everyone SHOULD know where I am

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, Kyle Communications said:

Skippy...no its the process. RAA have nothing to do with it except promote it..if you want to take advantage of the offer of 50%..YOU have to do the legwork dealing with the bureaucrats

I wanted to know if other homebuilders had been successful or not - no comment.

 

I don't expect RAAus to do the application for me but it would be helpful to know how others have faired.

[Kyle Communications]

Well I am a home builder and as I said earlier I got the 50% rebate..it was about 30 mins of work to do the paperwork and the govt fella paid me $4035 for my trouble

 

[Kyle Communications]

I filled out the forms for my mate for his SE2. he got his rebate after 8 weeks...he is the builder as well. He signed all the forms of course

 

 

[skippydiesel]

UPDATE!

 

Just tried to start the application process.

 

First order of business - open an account.

 

Funny - no matter what I did, the application system would not progress beyond the first page. Contacted the help desk - got Paula - after much assistance (very patient) she asked who my email address is with "bigpond.com" says I Oh! she says the program doesn't like bigpond. You will have to get a new address using a more recent server. 

 

I have had my address for about 30 years - first time had a problem/ anyone has suggested it is somehow outmoded. Trust the Gov. to come up with something like that.

[Old Koreelah]

17 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

I have had my address for about 30 years - first time had a problem/ anyone has suggested it is somehow outmoded. Trust the Gov. to come up with something like that.

There are some advantages in ditching old email addresses: a bit like cleaning out the shed or moving house.

 

[Kyle Communications]

Just get a free Gmail address..you dont get spam on it and it just works with everyone

 

[mkennard]

6 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

Just get a free Gmail address..you dont get spam on it and it just works with everyone

 

 

If you need to either forward your bigpond email to gmail or get gmail to check your bigpond email.

[skippydiesel]

I purchased my, almost completed, home built, a little over 12 months ago. The yet to be installed ADSB-S  was purchased 4 years ago. This pretty well makes me/it ineligible for the grant. Such is life and the limits on Gov largess, when it comes to enhanced safety.