Anatomy of a fake CO2 sensor

[danny_galaga]

https://hackaday.com/2023/02/18/anatomy-of-a-fake-co2-sensor/

 

[onetrack]

It comes back simply to the fact that you get what you pay for - and be very wary of Chinese claims and promises, when it come to electrical items. Virtually every single Chinese electrical item has some level of fraudulent claim attached to it.

 

I recently looked at some NiCd Sub-C batteries on AliExpress. The seller was claiming they were 2300 mAh. But one Russian purchaser provided photographic proof with his multimeter, that the batteries produced no more than 1900 mAh.

The seller just shrugged the review off - they don't care, it's all about lying bigger and better than any other seller, to ensure they get the sale.

 

Every single Chinese generator is over-rated, as to their true kVA output, under normal working conditions. 

[facthunter]

Don't order the "Flied Lies".  Nev

[danny_galaga]

Yes, definitely a matter of not buying critical stuff from eBay or Ali express. If you get it from a reputable source, it's still going to be made in china but to an OEM or high standard. I think even my skyecho2 is made in china, but if I saw one for half the price on eBay or Ali, well I think I'd give it a miss 😄

Edited February 20, 2023 by danny_galaga

[pmccarthy]

CO detectors I understand. But what are CO2 detectors used for?

 

[danny_galaga]

29 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

CO detectors I understand. But what are CO2 detectors used for?

 

Detecting CO2?

[tillmanr]

Maybe we shouldn’t buy iPads and iPhones because they are made in China too.

[onetrack]

Your next lot of iPads and iPhones are more likely to be assembled in Vietnam or India, and using American-made high-tech components, as Apple have had huge problems in China. COVID-19 is only just one of their problems.

The American Govt is subsidising and supporting the construction of major chip-making facilities in the U.S., and banning the export of high-tech manufacturing components to China from the U.S., to stall China's technological-edge abilities.

The Biden Govt has passed the CHIPS and Science Act, which is specifically designed to ensure America is no longer reliant on Asian supply chains for their high-tech componentry.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/07/business/apple-china-ymtc.html

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/09/fact-sheet-chips-and-science-act-will-lower-costs-create-jobs-strengthen-supply-chains-and-counter-china/

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, tillmanr said:

Maybe we shouldn’t buy iPads and iPhones because they are made in China too.

You might be missing the point. In china you can get all sorts. When the big names set up a factory there, they SET UP A FACTORY there. Pretty much every single thing for the factory is brought in. If it's Apple (or back in the day - Atari) Apple or Atari bring in all American machinery. The exact same machinery that they used in America. Every robot, every lathe, every silicon chip makey thing. Even the wiring comes from the USA. Same if it's German or Japanese. It's the same product because it's a duplicate factory. 

 

But when someone in china sets out to make a knockoff of a well known product, it's going to be all sorts of ordinary. Sometimes it's worth a punt (I got a knock off remote for my ten year old Samsung telly. Looks the part, and works just like the original). But these knock off artists do riff on the fact that people imagine that because it's from China, it must be from the same factory. It's not.

 

So if the function is critical, get it from a reputable source. Don't get an APLE charger. Go to the APPLE store and buy the real deal. If you want to replace your telly remote with the same, well that's worth a punt. At worst, you might have lost a few bucks, but at least it won't blow up your telly 🙂

Edited February 20, 2023 by danny_galaga

[danny_galaga]

[onetrack]

Don't you just love the description on the box of this Chinese "air quality detector"? - "precision instrument"!

 

The intensive dissection and internals examination by the YouTuber, shows otherwise.

 

 

 

[pmccarthy]

14 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

Detecting CO2?

Ok, not getting an answer here I looked it up. My interpretation is that co2 detectors are made because they can be, and the marketing of them is based on peoples fear of the greenhouse end of the world. In other words, they are total BS. Of course, detection of CO2 in blood is an important medical technology. 

[danny_galaga]

2 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

Ok, not getting an answer here I looked it up. My interpretation is that co2 detectors are made because they can be, and the marketing of them is based on peoples fear of the greenhouse end of the world. In other words, they are total BS. Of course, detection of CO2 in blood is an important medical technology. 

You can die or at least get headaches from CO2 as well. Asphyxiation. So it could be useful in small, poorly ventilated spaces...

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

not getting an answer here I looked it up.

Don't you have some sort of carbon dioxide detector in your cabin aircraft? That's what people on this forum would want one for. 

 

Most who do have used these:

At $10 per annum, it would make sense to purchase an electronic device that has a longer serviceable life.

Bunnings has a one for domestic use for $30.00, but pilot supply shops sell ones that you would probably trust a bit more for upwards from $250. I suppose you could do the Sodastream test with the Bunnings one. I don't think that a detector for use as a warning device would need to be accurate to 1 ppm. All you need is to see the output change from normal background level to higher levels. Those ones I've illustated simply change clour - lie X-Ray detector tags medical radiologists wear.

[skippydiesel]

As aircraft pilots, our concern should be about Carbon MONoxide (CO)

 

Battery CO detectors for use in caravans/boats/etc should, when correctly located, be perfectly adequate for small aircraft use and are a small fraction of the price, of those from "aircraft" suppliers.

 

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjpha_Bj6X9AhWPh8IKHTOZD_IYABACGgJ0bQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAASJORojGB-W29EH27fhdiE4tFUvLgJcuCKOuuhuoLblESd5-cXMg&sig=AOD64_1TsMVyRqZeHp1WEcFvVwTC3pqrMw&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiTwanBj6X9AhXhqlYBHZZPAZ0Q8w4oAXoECAMQDA&adurl=https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjpha_Bj6X9AhWPh8IKHTOZD_IYABACGgJ0bQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAASJORojGB-W29EH27fhdiE4tFUvLgJcuCKOuuhuoLblESd5-cXMg&sig=AOD64_1TsMVyRqZeHp1WEcFvVwTC3pqrMw&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiTwanBj6X9AhXhqlYBHZZPAZ0Q9A4oAnoECAMQDQ&adurl=https://www.everythingcaravancamping.com.au/a/caravan-rv-safety/quell/quell-carbon-monoxide-digital-alarm-q7dco/100021206?variant_id=66379&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6YWvwY-l_QIVj4fCCh0zmQ_yEAYYAiABEgLOXfD_BwE

Edited February 20, 2023 by skippydiesel

[facthunter]

Carbon monoxide is a poison and affects the blood.  There is a thing called carbogen. (a MIXTURE of oxygen and carbon dioxide). Used for treating people in place of pure oxygen which can damage the lungs.  The Nitrogen in the atmosphere(AIR) is what gives you the bends when you dive deep and then fly afterwards.  Bubbles form in your blood.   Nev

[danny_galaga]

My point in posting that article was more about highlighting the pitfalls off buying fake stuff , especially where you rationalise about the origin (oh, it all comes from the same factory). I could have posted an article about fake USB memory. That's a popular one. The root is rewritten to make it show as a bigger size. So instead of say a 512gb memory stick, what you are actually getting is a 64gb rewritten to look like a 512. Your computer will show it as 512, but once it gets close to 64gb full you'll get an error message or disk is full message. 

 

Definitely don't buy USB sticks from eBay or Ali express 😉

 

Skippy, your links a good case in point. Get the cheaper CO detector, but from Quell or wherever, not from eBay or Ali express.

 

Reputable suppliers have to submit their products for testing. That goes for USB chargers, clothes irons, lawn mowers or whatever. If you bypass that by going overseas, you don't know what you're getting. If it's failure is not dangerous (my fake tv remote for instance) it might be worth a gamble. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by danny_galaga

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

As aircraft pilots, our concern should be about Carbon MONoxide (CO)

Good pick-up! Pays to actually read the letters on the page.

[kiwiaviator]

I brought this Chinese made VHF antenna a few years ago for my boat. Works fine however I still keep an eye out for Winres. Nothing worse than being kelled!

[facthunter]

Bad as it may be It's better than our Mandarin.   I have a "rower hoaksaw" That works OK.   Cuts 5" alloy steel Bar.  Nev

[onetrack]

Peter - As a mining man, you should know that a buildup of CO2 is a killer in old mine shafts where ventilation is stilled, or non-existent. Typically, old, hand-dug exploratory vertical shafts, where there's no chance of ventilation.

As CO2 is much heavier than air, a buildup of CO2 in an old unventilated mineshaft displaces the air - and if you go down the shaft without breathing equipment, you can suffocate. Not a common event, but it has happened.

 

It is also a potential threat in caving, particularly where the cave is vertical, and there's no connection to any other surface hole or vents. The generally-accepted level of CO2 buildup, is that over 1% CO2 is dangerous.

As a result, rescuers are very alert when carrying out mineshaft fall or caving rescues, as to the possibility of "foul air" (an old term, but still in use).

 

I wouldn't be placing my life on the line with a dubious-quality, low-cost, Chinese CO or CO2 detector that has not been verified to meet international gas-testing standards, or an Australian certifying authority approval.

 

https://pioneerwalks.com.au/caving-dangers-foul-air/

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by onetrack

[pmccarthy]

All true, Onetrack, I was trying to understand the marketing of them to the general population. I suspect some confusion with CO. As I recall, increased CO2 causes rapid breathing which tells you something is wrong. As you say, it displaces O2 and low O2 symptoms is something pilots should know about.

[RossK]

3 hours ago, kiwiaviator said:

I brought this Chinese made VHF antenna a few years ago for my boat. Works fine however I still keep an eye out for Winres. Nothing worse than being kelled!

Good to see it's safe around Electric power lines though, just watch out for the electic ones, they'll kell you`

[Garfly]

6 hours ago, old man emu said:

Bunnings has a one for domestic use for $30.00, but pilot supply shops sell ones that you would probably trust a bit more for upwards from $250. 

 

 

 

https://shop.raa.asn.au/co-gas-alarm

 

[kgwilson]

I got an aliexpress email the other day selling 2 Tb SD cards for $6. These don't even exist yet. And today 18650 batteries 9900 mAh for $2.19 and a fake Samsung S23 Ultra phone for $160.00. All absolute rubbish.

 

There are good CO monitors that don't cost that much. I paid around $30.00 for one that works really well. I have it on the panel & it takes 3 AAA batteries. Came with a test certificate and I have checked that it works properly. The RAA one is far too sensitive & starts alarming at normal background CO. An 8 hour safe level is 50ppm though 30ppm is the recommended safe level in the workplace. Background CO in the home varies between 5 & 12 ppm & the RA one starts alarming at 9ppm. There are a multitude of different standards around the world as well. If you are buying one just do some research first.