VFR Waypoint Map

[Jabiru7252]

We have folks leaving school with rudimentary math and writing skills because some clown decided the kids will use computers. Anybody see those two women, senators I believe who struggled to calculate the total cost of buying 4 widgets at $4.15 each. One managed after a minute or so, the other had no idea. Dumbing down will be our undoing...

[Garfly]

 

 

 

9 hours ago, hkaneshiro said:

Similarly on another route - YPJT - BODD (Boddington mine). I knew there was  BODD waypoint - but didn't see it marked on the VTC/VNC and was wondering how people knew about it...

 

7 hours ago, old man emu said:

You have to use primary information sources. For a pilot/navigator, if no VTC/VNC , go to the WAC for the area where you are operating . Boddington Mine is a bloody great hole in the ground. I dont have the relevant WAC, but I be it's marked on in, especially if it's a waypoint. If you want to find its Lat/Long to put into your SmartNav, use the technique I explained in an earlier post. Since I don't have the relevant WAC, I simply went to Google Maps and found that Boddington Mine is located at -32.764317, 116.360615. Then I plugged those numbers into fhttps://www.gps-coordinates.net/gps-coordinates-converter and got  -324044, 1163112, which is as accurate as ERSA location details are.

 

Your questions, which are not in any way dumb, make me wonder if you have ever used a WAC, or do you simply carry the necessary ones for your flight in case a CASA Inspector pounces on you for a ramp check?

 

OME, if you'd shout yourself one of those newfangled EFBs, every aeronautical chart for the whole country would be at your fingertips. And they'd be current.

You'd not have to sweat lat/long bullets to manage the simple task of finding BODD / Boddington. 

 

hkaneshiro  your question was a good one and good answers have already been posted above: OzRwys (or AvPlan) is your friend.

All the waypoints you mentioned are immediately apparent when you turn on the appropriate layer. (No need of the permanent clutter that'd be necessary on paper.)

And they will appear (on demand) on every chart-type in the system - WACs, VNCs, VTCs etc. 

 

 

Of course, there are way more WPs available than are shown in the plan samples below - the others have been cleaned up (by deselecting the layer).

Also, such a plan can be formatted for NAIPS and then submitted from the device with a just few clicks.  

As you'd well know, the EFB is way, way more than "a quick reference source of navigational information whilst in flight."

 

 

CLICK THUMBNAIL FOR FULL REZ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Garfly

[old man emu]

8 hours ago, Garfly said:

OME, if you'd shout yourself one of those newfangled EFBs, every aeronautical chart for the whole country would be at your fingertips. And they'd be current.

That is quite true, and I'm not such a Luddite as to refuse to use these devices. They would not have been invented if they were not convenient to use. The point I am making is that, to my way of thinking, preparing a flight plan with basic tools is part of the enjoyment of recreational flying. Also, if navigating by EFB is so fantastic, why does CASA require the carriage of relevant, current WACs for the proposed flight, and also a compass and clock?

 

When a pilot relies on an EFB, the EFB becomes part of the aeroplane's essential equipment for that flight. If another essential piece of equipment failed, would a wise pilot continue the flight, or put down as soon as practicable to rectify the problem? 

[KRviator]

Quote

Also, if navigating by EFB is so fantastic, why does CASA require the carriage of relevant, current WACs for the proposed flight, and also a compass and clock?

A quick clarification, the CASR's / CAR's / MOS / Whatever-the-****-CASA-calls-them-this-week do not require the carriage of WAC's - or any specific chart for a flight - only carriage of such charts that ensure you won't get lost. That's my understanding anyway. They recommend that if you're using an EFB that you have a backup, but (for PVT ops) do not mandate what that backup should be in terms of size etc. Personally, I use the Dynon as primary, the iPad as backup and the phone as the backup's backup.

I don't completely agree with you OME as regards needing to navigate "old school" with paper charts and whiz wheel, however any aviator must be able to mentally calculate roughly where they are and where they need to point and for how long, with a reasonable degree of accuracy when flying visually to get where they need to go before they run out of fuel.

Any new pilot needs to be taught the fundamentals of navigation before being taken on their first XC. Drift angles, ETA's and, as Bob Tait says using the clock, are the building blocks before you begin putting them together to actually go somewhere and trying to learn navigation while navigating. That doesn't work for new pilots. It's like trying to dink from a firehose.

Quote

When a pilot relies on an EFB, the EFB becomes part of the aeroplane's essential equipment for that flight. If another essential piece of equipment failed, would a wise pilot continue the flight, or put down as soon as practicable to rectify the problem? 

 I don't expect, nor could I myself confidently say "I am 3NM SE of Upper Bumphuck Homestead and I'll be overhead in 60 seconds" mid-leg if my EFIS failed. I don't plan my flights like that, nor do I believe such tight tolerances are necessary for all but 0.005% of our flying. Typically, I'll plan the flight the night before on SkyVector, update it on the morning of departure on the iPad, Wi-fi it to the Dynon and follow along on the moving map display with the autopilot engaged and me watching the world pass by. There's 4 independent GNSS/GPS receivers on board my RV, one of which is a TSO'd unit the AIP allows for RNAV position-fixing (and extended VFR-on-top if needed), but even if they all failed, I could still say "Well, we're 40 minutes into a 60 minute leg, I'm going to change from NAV to HDG on the Autopilot, not touch anything else and I reckon in about 15 minutes I'll be able to see the next airport/town/feature and in 20 mins I'll be overhead,  so I'll turn by X degrees onto the next leg and repeat the process there."

For me - and most other fliers behind EFIS' with the OzR / AvP charts loaded - to lose all navigation data you would have to have a total electrical failure (losing my TSO'd GNSS), followed up remaining airborne long enough to deplete your EFIS backup batteries (thereby losing my Dynon GNSS & both screens with their displayed charts) - then staying airborne long enough to run your iPad battery flat, and continuing to stay airborne long enough to run my phone battery flat. By that time, I'm 6 hours beyond my endurance and probably 7 hours past my passengers "I need to land to pee" time.

[Garfly]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

The point I am making is that, to my way of thinking, preparing a flight plan with basic tools is part of the enjoyment of recreational flying. 

 

Oh, yeah, I think most would agree with that. By making it almost impossible to get lost GPS/EFBs have taken much of the sport out of air navigation. The plus side is that the anxiety around getting lost has also gone, so you can better enjoy the other aspects of flying y'self around.  But the OP's question was not about having the max fun from flying but how to efficiently complete an ASA/NAIPS flight plan when the necessary waypoint designators were hard to find.

 

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

 Also, if navigating by EFB is so fantastic, why does CASA require the carriage of relevant, current WACs for the proposed flight, and also a compass and clock?

 

First off, I'd have thought you'd have been the last person to suggest that what CASA requires is a reliable measure of common sense.   ;- )

And second, CASA does not require you to carry paper if you have EFB charts. 

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

When a pilot relies on an EFB, the EFB becomes part of the aeroplane's essential equipment for that flight. If another essential piece of equipment failed, would a wise pilot continue the flight, or put down as soon as practicable to rectify the problem? 

I reckon the wise pilot would have to answer "well that depends". But the legendary wise pilot (if he/she remains so mid crisis) is not going to rely on any single 'system' if he/she can help it.  You'd be a fool to entirely trust your compass, too.  Or even your watch.  (Much less those many numbers you had so much fun jotting down the previous night.) 😉 

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, Garfly said:

But the OP's question was not about having the max fun from flying but how to efficiently complete an ASA/NAIPS flight plan when the necessary waypoint designators were hard to find.

I reckon that has been answered OK and I hope the answer helped.  However, we must maintain the culture of this forum an generate more thread drift than a Paddle-Pop stick in a drain after a summer torrential downpour.

 

1 hour ago, Garfly said:

the anxiety around getting lost has also gone,

The anxiety of getting lost is dependant on the distance from your last accurately confirmed location. Do people simply plan to fly long legs from D to P, or do they insert F, J, and L on their flight plan as places merely to be noted in order to confirm Track Made Good?

 

All this denigration of map reading is making me think that a major Search and Rescue operation will be the finale to Winging it Down the Castlereagh.  At worst, the flight can be done IFR&R&R from Tooraweenah to Coonamble. The test I have included is getting from Coonamble to Tooraweenah via the designated locations.

 

IFR&R&R: I follow roads, railways and rivers.

[facthunter]

And if you're traveling with a group, I follow ratbags,   Nev

[old man emu]

Better than being labelled "Leader of the Pack"

[facthunter]

Glorious God Emperor sound OK?  or ACE of the Base?  Nev

[old man emu]

If you really want to travel with a group of like-minded individuals you must in the first instance obtain the approval of SHMBO.

[facthunter]

Most of them are too scared to fly with us. They're not stupid.  Nev

[Neil_S]

On 01/03/2023 at 11:43 AM, old man emu said:

If you really want to travel with a group of like-minded individuals you must in the first instance obtain the approval of SHMBO.

....shouldn't that be SWMBO?    (speaking as a Rumpole fan....)

 

 

Cheers,

Neil

Edited March 2, 2023 by Neil_S

[facthunter]

Well spotted 99. Nev

[Garfly]

On 01/03/2023 at 11:22 AM, old man emu said:

I reckon that has been answered OK and I hope the answer helped.  However, we must maintain the culture of this forum an generate more thread drift than a Paddle-Pop stick in a drain after a summer torrential downpour.

Ha, ha, nice image.   But, drift, per se, isn't a problem; the catching of it, though, sometimes is.

[Garfly]

More to the point: whatareyou