Are Instructors retiring and not being replaced?

[trailer]

Does anyone else notice we are losing RAA instructors in regional areas and there doesn't seem to be new ones filling the gaps? Not sure about metropolitan areas but I hear it is not uncommon that people are finding it difficult to get training and bfrs. Is it too difficult to get the qualification or is just not worth it?

[spacesailor]

Not only ' retiring  ' but getting pushef off the register! .

A Great ' satellite ' training school ,was knocked back for not dotting the eye's, of buearocrasy. 

A young female instructor ( between Orange & Dubbo  ) knocked back for ' Airfield ' inadequacy .

And thats just my Personal involvement. 

spacesailor

 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by spacesailor
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[Jabiru7252]

Well, let's hope they don't dumb down the requirements for obtaining an instructor rating. It's bad enough with teachers, doctors etc.

[cscotthendry]

It's not just flying instructors. In every field, people are retiring and businesses are struggling to fill the expertise shortages. Some of the junior staff are ready to move up, but a lot aren't. And the businesses cannot fill the lower positions as people move up.
Blame us Boomers … again *sigh*

[old man emu]

44 minutes ago, cscotthendry said:

In every field, people are retiring and businesses are struggling to fill the expertise shortages.

So true! So true. 

What does the Government do? Pour money into apprenticeships in the construction industry, but not a brass razoo into trades that keep things going. 

 

Virtually every sector of the aviation industry is dying due to practitioners reaching retirement age and no replacements coming on. Replace "aviation" with any other industry and it's the same story. 

[BrendAn]

48 minutes ago, cscotthendry said:

It's not just flying instructors. In every field, people are retiring and businesses are struggling to fill the expertise shortages. Some of the junior staff are ready to move up, but a lot aren't. And the businesses cannot fill the lower positions as people move up.
Blame us Boomers … again *sigh*

There have been a few truck fleets up for auction lately and the common theme is owners selling up and retiring because they can't get drivers any more. The workshop that services my trucks ran an ad for a mechanic for 18 months without a single reply.  I spoke to a construction manager on Wednesday who told me they have more work than they can do because they can't find any workers.  

[facthunter]

50 years ago   there were going to be few jobs in the future as automation was going to have such a big effect. How wrong was that?   Nev

[facthunter]

Most RAAus Instructors get paid bugger all and THEY have to have a class 2. That level of medical shouldn't be necessary after the student has about 6 hours up if you think about it. Statistically dual training is the safest  aspect of your flying.   Your early flying (ab initio) is where you'll pick up the foundation principles for your flying future and IF you have dubious grip of it, it may bite you later. Nev

[Jabiru7252]

Having the best welfare system in the galaxy, why work? Just sit on your bum and do nothing and get paid. Then folks complain because 'foreigners' come here, see the opportunities and jobs and jump at them. Vote me in as King Kevin and things would change in a flash.

[facthunter]

OK King Kev. Tell me how well you can live on the old age pension?  Nev

[Student Pilot]

21 minutes ago, Jabiru7252 said:

Having the best welfare system in the galaxy, why work? Just sit on your bum and do nothing and get paid. Then folks complain because 'foreigners' come here, see the opportunities and jobs and jump at them. Vote me in as King Kevin and things would change in a flash.

You've never had a bad patch and tried to get the dole then? Then try and buy food while paying extortionate rent. Yep those dole bludgers have the best life.........🙄

 

 

[Student Pilot]

We won't be needing instructors and engineers soon, CASA will have made aviation safer by putting all GA/RAA out of the air.

[facthunter]

Static exhibits from now on.  Seriously why would anybody in their right mind, work under rules of strict Liability? Ask ANY lawyer. Pilot contracts of any worth  contain some form of indemnity.. The whole thing needs reformation . Nev

[farri]

On 11/03/2023 at 9:32 PM, trailer said:

Does anyone else notice we are losing RAA instructors in regional areas and there doesn't seem to be new ones filling the gaps? Not sure about metropolitan areas but I hear it is not uncommon that people are finding it difficult to get training and bfrs. Is it too difficult to get the qualification or is just not worth it?

Hi trailer, I`m pleased you`ve raised the subject! Just a bit about me for those who don`t know me!

 

I started flying Ultralight aircraft, 40 years ago, in the early days of the Australian Ultralight Federation (A.U.F.), now Recreational Aviation Australia (R.A.A.)! I`ve been a paid-up member for all those years and remain current. I worked my way up to AUF, CFI, rating and ran my own, C.A.A. and A.U.F, approved flying school, off my property, for 12 years, before retiring from instructing, several years ago! I turned 75 years of age on the first of January, this year! I still fly my Drifter, regularly and take passengers with me.

 

Yes! I have noticed the loss of R.A.A. flying schools and there are numerous reasons for this! The R.A.A is no longer what the A.U.F. was, intended to be! in my opinion, R.A.A. is heading to be the new GA, if it isn`t, already.  

On 11/03/2023 at 9:32 PM, trailer said:

 Is it too difficult to get the qualification or is just not worth it?

It`s some of both of those things! here is just a section of the R.A.A. current operations manual, for the requirements of obtaining a, instructor rating, then there is, Senior and finally! C.F.I. rating! that may allow you to establish your own Flight Training Facility, so, hopefully, one day, you will get back the $$$$$ spent on obtaining the certificates.  

 

Copied from R.A.A. ops manual 7.1.1

SECTION 2.08 INSTRUCTOR RATING – GROUP A AND B. fly the aeroplane accurately and safely in each sequence to the standards set out in the RAAus Syllabus of Flight Training.

 

AERONAUTICAL EXPERIENCE 4. Prior to undertaking an in-flight examination for the issue of an Instructor Rating, an applicant must: a. have completed the RAAus Instructor Training Course or an approved equivalent, that includes:

 

(i) a minimum of 20 hours dual in-flight instruction in a recreational aeroplane of the same Group; and

 

(ii) a minimum of 30 hours ground instruction, which includes the PMI course required by Subparagraph 1.(d) of this Section and practice formal briefings; and

 

(iii) a minimum of 5 hours of the in-flight instruction required under subparagraph 4.(a) (i) of this Section must be completed with a CFI or PE approved by the Head of Flight Operations as an Instructor Trainer (IT). The remainder of the in-flight instruction may be completed by a Senior Instructor, (who has been approved by the Head of Flight Operations), acting under the IT; and b. have a minimum of 100 hours as pilot-in-command of recreational aeroplane in the same Aeroplane Group for which the rating is sought; or c. if having recognised flight time as a Pilot or Instructor from a recognised organisation other than RAAus, satisfy the requirements of Section 2.13 Paragraphs 8 and 9 of this manual.

 

Franco!

Ps, Ok Guys! hands up, those who want to become an R.A.A. instructors?

 

[Student Pilot]

Last time I saw an RAA instructor he was charging $150 an hour, I think he should have used a mask when instructing like a burglar.

[farri]

Yeah! well! the only RAA instructor, in my area, that I`m aware of, was charging $350 per hr! I was told by one of his students.

 

Is that too much or not enough? depend on his overheads, I suppose! I reckon he`d say, it`s not enough!!!!

Franco.

[spacesailor]

Too much or not enough !.

It all depends on the End use to which the pupil will use the ' license ' for.

Pure recreational flying will never pay any expence aquirering the license. 

Building towards a flying career, cost will just be a stepping stone , towards greater goals .

AUF Was only ' Recreational flying. 

RAA asn , is a stepping stone to commercial aviation .

spacesailor

 

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, Student Pilot said:

Last time I saw an RAA instructor he was charging $150 an hour, I think he should have used a mask when instructing like a burglar.

Aerochute want to charge me $400 per hr for a powered parachute licence. I pay &250 per hr to learn fixed wing in a technam.  

[facthunter]

Over a lifetime of flying I would say the return has still to exceed the expense of the training and checking. Nev.

[BrendAn]

4 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Over a lifetime of flying I would say the return has still to exceed the expense of the training and checking. Nev.

I am only a rec flyer so its just an expense that can't be recouped.

I am having a change from boating so I am used to throwing money away.😃

[facthunter]

That's a good argument. Both are an expensive addiction.  For the boat thing , just add ice water. and bird poo.   Nev

[trailer]

5 hours ago, farri said:

It`s some of both of those things!

I don't think instructors generally make much money due to the amount of time that goes into supporting theory and ground briefings. It seems to be the passionate aviators who came from the AUF such as you Farri that are going..going..gone.

 

The bigger schools that train and employ instructors from their own students seem to be doing okay but they are the minority I think. 

 

It's the flying clubs and regional schools which seem to be disappearing fast.

 

What could RAA do to support those inerested in taking on the role in regional areas.

 

One suggestion could be the  supervision of new instructors using technology when there is not pracical ability for a CFI to be onsite while they work through their training. This could also help GA training which is also suffering a simmilar fate. 

 

PS thanks for you youtube vids Farri they are great.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by trailer
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[farri]

59 minutes ago, trailer said:

 It seems to be the passionate aviators who came from the AUF such as you Farri that are going..going..gone.

 

 

 

 

Of course! because, a lot of instructors would be older than me! how long could instructors be expected to continue? just look at the age of most of the RAA members! without the younger generations replacing us mature guys and gals, I would think it`s inevitable that at some point the RAA will cease to exist.

1 hour ago, trailer said:

What could RAA do to support those inerested in taking on the role in regional areas.

 

 

 

 

Well! first of all! they could decide exactly, in which direction they wish to go! If it`s only for the modern LSA, then in my opinion, they may as well be the new G.A. because there arn`t too many of the younger generation who could afford the training, let alone the aircraft.

 

1 hour ago, trailer said:

PS thanks for you youtube vids Farri they are great.

 

 

Off topic, I know! but! Thank you! I appreciate it. I don`t post all of my videos on youtube, most are on my facebook page and a couple of other sites that I am a member of! the Drifter Aircraft Appreciation Society, being one of them...https://www.facebook.com/groups/1419567688295037 

Franco...https://www.facebook.com/franco.arri

[Bosi72]

I don't think there is a shortage of instructors, judging by one school in Melbourne area. However as with everything else, I believe there is a shortage of instructors in rural areas.

 

True, most of young instructors are just there for hours building, but there are people who aren't into airlines and they are happy with their jobs.

 

Unfortunately the rating isn't cheap, but it is easier on a budget when spread over several months.

 

ps: Just finished preparing a long brief power point on Circuits lesson (GA)...

 

[Student Pilot]

The price I quoted was just for the instructor, aircraft on top of that.