Started a spare parts list

[danny_galaga]

27 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

I ground my rectifier/regulator case by;

• Fixing it to the metal airframe
• Running a dedicated earth/ground wire, from one of the fixing screws, to a negative bus 

 

I strongly recomend the installation/use of a dedicated negative/earth return circuit for all 12 volt systems.

Agree. In this case we are talking about the CARR5115 regulator. 

[skippydiesel]

Nice clear schematics Danny - Although not shown, would still run a dedicated negative/earth return circuit connecting to the device body.

Although chassi/airframe returns are common, I don't like their  potential, over time, for a little bit of oxidisation /paint/dirt/movement to increase the return resistance, in some cases, to the point of nil continuity.

The cost & weight of dedicated return circuit (usually in parallel with the airframe) is negligible.

[danny_galaga]

55 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Nice clear schematics Danny - Although not shown, would still run a dedicated negative/earth return circuit connecting to the device body.

Although chassi/airframe returns are common, I don't like their  potential, over time, for a little bit of oxidisation /paint/dirt/movement to increase the return resistance, in some cases, to the point of nil continuity.

The cost & weight of dedicated return circuit (usually in parallel with the airframe) is negligible.

You're preaching to the converted. Earth return on everything on my build. My regulator is hooked up directly to the positive and negative of the battery (well from memory to the bus bar) and the heat sink itself doesn't require an earth from memory as you can see from the differences in the two regulator diagrams. 

Edited September 9 by danny_galaga

[Blueadventures]

11 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

You're preaching to the converted. Earth return on everything on my build. My regulator is hooked up directly to the positive and negative of the battery (well from memory to the bus bar) and the heat sink itself doesn't require an earth from memory as you can see from the differences in the two regulator diagrams. 

And the negative green connects to airframe. As well as battery negative?  Agree heat sink / mount does not need to be grounded.

Edited September 9 by Blueadventures

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, Blueadventures said:

And the negative green connects to airframe. As well as battery negative?  Agree heat sink / mount does not need to be grounded.

The only "earth" on my plane is the negative battery cable going to a bolt on the starter motor rear housing. Everything else is negative wired. The airframe almost certainly has negative potential because something will ground the engine to it somewhere along the way (for instance the throttle cable. Or maybe the Facet fuel pump) but it's not part of the "deliberate" electrical system.

Edited September 9 by danny_galaga

[Blueadventures]

41 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

The only "earth" on my plane is the negative battery cable going to a bolt on the starter motor rear housing. Everything else is negative wired. The airframe almost certainly has negative potential because something will ground the engine to it somewhere along the way (for instance the throttle cable. Or maybe the Facet fuel pump) but it's not part of the "deliberate" electrical system.

 

41 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

The only "earth" on my plane is the negative battery cable going to a bolt on the starter motor rear housing. Everything else is negative wired. The airframe almost certainly has negative potential because something will ground the engine to it somewhere along the way (for instance the throttle cable. Or maybe the Facet fuel pump) but it's not part of the "deliberate" electrical system.

Just asking if the green wire from the RecReg going to the battery negative; also has a connection to the airframe? Like in the schematic.

 

On my build I has three negative ground posts that all grounds connect to so I'm not relying on the airframe connection to the battery negative for grounding circuit.  Cheers.

[skippydiesel]

41 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

The only "earth" on my plane is the negative battery cable going to a bolt on the starter motor rear housing. Everything else is negative wired. The airframe almost certainly has negative potential because something will ground the engine to it somewhere along the way (for instance the throttle cable. Or maybe the Facet fuel pump) but it's not part of the "deliberate" electrical system.

Earth/Ground/Negative - pretty much all the same in 12V circuit. Terminology varies with country/upbringing.

 

Probably should have taken "holy orders" - you have sort of made my point - connect everything electrical (all bodies/housings/mounting brackets) to a negative return circuit. You will never regret it and may even come to "Thank the Lord" you went down this track (I even do my cars like this )😈

[danny_galaga]

Yeah, we are saying the same thing in different ways. Electrically, saying "earth" on DC voltage electrics in cars, trucks etc implies a common "ground" connection, nowadays always negative via a metal chassis, body etc. as you know, that's what is happening in your car. Just saying "negative" doesn't automatically tell you how it's created. That's why I was trying to be really clear. Some cars up until the 1950's had positive ground! Pommy of course 😄

 

So with my auto electrical background, knowing how problematic earth return/ground/common is on things like trailers and boats, I fully understand and embrace "earth return" wiring in an aircraft. That is, wire carries the current for both positive and negative. No device on my aircraft is powered via current transmitted through the metal of the airframe.

 

 

[danny_galaga]

2 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

 

Just asking if the green wire from the RecReg going to the battery negative; also has a connection to the airframe? Like in the schematic.

 

On my build I has three negative ground posts that all grounds connect to so I'm not relying on the airframe connection to the battery negative for grounding circuit.  Cheers.

No. I'm not even sure why they put that earth symbol there, other than to say if you've wired your aircraft with negative earth (that is, instead of having a negative wire going to devices, the battery negative connects to the metal airframe and your device gets its negative from the airframe, like a car does). In any case it's probably best to use wire for the negative of your regulator, not the airframe.

[Moneybox]

Bert Flood's price on the carburettor kits is $431.11 + GST each. Considering the time this plane has been sitting idle I'll buy them rather than look for alternatives. I dropped in to Repco today to buy 6mm Gates fuel hose but they only have 1/4". I can't check what's on the plane because it already wrapped up.

[skippydiesel]

With the Flood carburettor kit - be sure you know what is include before purchase.

 

I think you are correct about the Gates 6.3mmID (1/4").

 

Unless there is something unusual about your Rotax installation, the 6.3 will  be correct Note the fuel line clamps at the end of the flyer below:

 

https://www.gatesaustralia.com.au/-/media/files/gates-au/automotive/brochures/cooling-system-and-hose-products/gates-fuel-hose-flyer--june-2018.pdf

 

I find  getting the correct hose ID to be no problem but working out how much length you need, allowing for the inevitable mistakes is always a challenge.

 

If the Repco person/store is any good, you should be able to negotiate a discount. 

[Moneybox]

36 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

With the Flood carburettor kit - be sure you know what is include before purchase.

 

I think you are correct about the Gates 6.3mmID (1/4").

 

Unless there is something unusual about your Rotax installation, the 6.3 will  be correct Note the fuel line clamps at the end of the flyer below:

 

https://www.gatesaustralia.com.au/-/media/files/gates-au/automotive/brochures/cooling-system-and-hose-products/gates-fuel-hose-flyer--june-2018.pdf

 

I find  getting the correct hose ID to be no problem but working out how much length you need, allowing for the inevitable mistakes is always a challenge.

 

If the Repco person/store is any good, you should be able to negotiate a discount. 

I hoping to buy the carburettor kits at the counter so I can see what I’m getting. They only had 4.6m of hose so I took it all.

[Blueadventures]

Money box the inlet to the fuel pump on engine is 8mm (5/16)  outlet to carbs 6.3mm ( 1/4 ).

[Red]

9 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

I ground my rectifier/regulator case by;

• Fixing it to the metal airframe
• Running a dedicated earth/ground wire, from one of the fixing screws, to a negative bus 

 

I strongly recomend the installation/use of a dedicated negative/earth return circuit for all 12 volt systems.

Carmo reg has a negative lead

[Red]

3 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

Yeah, we are saying the same thing in different ways. Electrically, saying "earth" on DC voltage electrics in cars, trucks etc implies a common "ground" connection, nowadays always negative via a metal chassis, body etc. as you know, that's what is happening in your car. Just saying "negative" doesn't automatically tell you how it's created. That's why I was trying to be really clear. Some cars up until the 1950's had positive ground! Pommy of course 😄

 

So with my auto electrical background, knowing how problematic earth return/ground/common is on things like trailers and boats, I fully understand and embrace "earth return" wiring in an aircraft. That is, wire carries the current for both positive and negative. No device on my aircraft is powered via current transmitted through the metal of the airframe.

 

 

I agree that is best practice and already provided with the Carmo,  did you end up with the case grounded anyway just because its easier to mount to something metal thats probably grounded itself and adds some heatsinking?

[Moneybox]

1 hour ago, Blueadventures said:

Money box the inlet to the fuel pump on engine is 8mm (5/16)  outlet to carbs 6.3mm ( 1/4 ).

Yes that swollen bit of hose on the pump is where the first squirt of fuel came from. I replaced that hose because I just wanted to fire it up but then the float bowls flooded. There was too much chance of fire so I gave up and decided to do the job properly when I get it home. 

[Moneybox]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

With the Flood carburettor kit - be sure you know what is include before purchase.

 

I think you are correct about the Gates 6.3mmID (1/4").

 

Unless there is something unusual about your Rotax installation, the 6.3 will  be correct Note the fuel line clamps at the end of the flyer below:

 

https://www.gatesaustralia.com.au/-/media/files/gates-au/automotive/brochures/cooling-system-and-hose-products/gates-fuel-hose-flyer--june-2018.pdf

 

I find  getting the correct hose ID to be no problem but working out how much length you need, allowing for the inevitable mistakes is always a challenge.

 

If the Repco person/store is any good, you should be able to negotiate a discount. 

Thanks Sean, I’m happy now that I got the right size. Now I’m just waiting for Evector to come back to me on their recommended parts list. I can’t do all the work, it’ll have to be done by somebody qualified but I want it cleaned up and running before I get to them. 
The outside of the engine looks terrible. It has nothing to do with what’s going on inside but first impressions are important. I need to find a very good aluminium cleaner. I have Alibright for cleaning our gold but I’ve never tried it on aluminium. 

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, Red said:

I agree that is best practice and already provided with the Carmo,  did you end up with the case grounded anyway just because its easier to mount to something metal thats probably grounded itself and adds some heatsinking?

I haven't looked at it closely but I seem to recall the mounts are stand off, which lets air circulate behind. My firewall is fibreglass, with aluminium covered fibreglass heat shielding, so maybe it's grounded on that but (again from memory) the regulator is potted in a generic heat sink So I don't know if there is even an electrical connection, in other words I have a feeling it's above ground.

[Moneybox]

 

This is the kit I hope to get. I could probably save some money buying from the states but I've been ripped off by Americans more than any other race that I dealt with and I used to trade internationally. 

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, Moneybox said:

 

This is the kit I hope to get. I could probably save some money buying from the states but I've been ripped off by Americans more than any other race that I dealt with and I used to trade internationally. 

It's actually quite hard getting genuine Rotax stuff from overseas suppliers. They seem to be region -locked, like a 1990s computer game 😄

[Moneybox]

5 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

It's actually quite hard getting genuine Rotax stuff from overseas suppliers. They seem to be region -locked, like a 1990s computer game 😄

That would be part of their dealer agreement with Rotax. It’s a good system put in place to protect regional parts dealers from unscrupulous poachers marketing outside their dealer region.

 

We had a dealer agreement with AmGeneral Corporation in the US where we supplied Hummer parts to all RH drive countries through the world. When war broke out in Timor the Portuguese Military came to us for parts because we could get the there from Capel WA almost overnight depending on the time of day we received the order. If they ordered from their European source they could wait weeks. We happily took the windfall but got a quiet wrap over the knuckles from AmGeneral sometime later when the other dealer realised what was happening. It was just the circumstances requiring the urgency of supply that prevented us from getting into real trouble. 

We enjoyed the same protection here in Australia. It allowed us to carry about 5000 parts lines in stock and price them appropriately to cover the cost of having all that money tied up in slow moving stock. We could actually return any old unsold stock for a full credit but we never did. Freight usually cost as much as the parts.

 

What most clients don’t understand is that the Australian dealer has to buy those parts, cover the cost of the freight and import charges and then carry the cost off hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of parts sitting idle on a shelf waiting for just a few Australian customers to need that part urgently. We must pay a price penalty for that service otherwise we’d loose out local parts supplier. 
 

Even if the item is not Australian made buying in Australia is supporting our Australian industry that we often rely on when we need something NOW. 

[skippydiesel]

Not all overseas suppliers, of Rotax parts, are bound by Rotax regional agreements. Often the up front price is very competitive BUT the often very painful sting, is the delivery charge.😈

 

[skippydiesel]

"The outside of the engine looks terrible. I need to find a very good aluminium cleaner. "

 

Older Rotax 9's tend to be a tad dull (exception being the rocker boxes).  I don't mind mine being dull, but they must be reasonably clean.

 

 

[Moneybox]

9 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

"The outside of the engine looks terrible. I need to find a very good aluminium cleaner. "

 

Older Rotax 9's tend to be a tad dull (exception being the rocker boxes).  I don't mind mine being dull, but they must be reasonably clean.

 

 

Perhaps a coat of Alibright and then hit with the pressure cleaner might be enough.

[Thruster88]

8 minutes ago, Moneybox said:

Perhaps a coat of Alibright and then hit with the pressure cleaner might be enough.

Making the engine more beautiful on the outside will do nothing for reliability. Get some Alibright in the ignition system may reduce reliability.