Bankstown accident 17/03/2023

[flying dog]

Sorry folks.

 

Flight from SHQ (south port) to YSBK.

 

4 seater.   Landed and flipped.

 

 

[Thruster88]

One wing has detached. I think it would be difficult to do this after landing a Cirrus without hitting anything. Perhaps a pre landing stall.

[trailer]

https://nine.social/9qn

[skippydiesel]

Weather has been a bit gusty of late - who knows an unexpected gust might just be to blame

[Chris SS]

There is a post on Facebook where a witness alleges that the aircraft suffered a tail strike followed by a go-around with a steep pitch up and a wing drop.  This post does not serve to speculate on the cause of this specific accident, but rather to discuss that this is a very plausible and common occurrence during a late go-around in high powered singles - especially Cirri.

Let's be mindful of the need to apply firm forward pressure on the stick during the go around. Your priority should be to keep the nose down and get the speed up before initiating the climb.  Remember - the trim will want to fight you.

 

[facthunter]

Go arounds can end up being the most critical flying a pilot ever does. Ground effect can assist.. A "Bounce recovery" may commence with a most unsatisfactory pitch attitude, and low airspeed, but may also be complicated by the gust of wind that may have caused it. Nev.

[IBob]

37 minutes ago, Chris SS said:

Let's be mindful of the need to apply firm forward pressure on the stick during the go around. Your priority should be to keep the nose down and get the speed up before initiating the climb.  Remember - the trim will want to fight you.

 

Yep, that's something I think should be emphasised and practised in training. Or should have been for me: the degree to which full flaps, full up trim pitches the aircraft up when full power is applied caught me unawares for one episode of very poor piloting.......(

[facthunter]

To try to set up this critical situation as a training  exercise would also be creating an unjustifiably high risk situation which would scare the pants off must students and they'd go somewhere else or get/request another Instructor. At that stage all they want to do is a greasy landing and you can only do that after you've done a circuit (minimum) which is costing them money.  With a simulator, you can freeze it and show what's going on and repeat it as many times as you wish.  A full motion simulator is not cheap either.  Nev

[IBob]

I don't disagree with you, Facthunter, but surely this is a situation every student will face with a missed landing/go around?

[facthunter]

Not sure.  It's a lot to do with how bad you bounce. I'm of the view go around early rather than after you bounce. You can (and should) abort the landing during the approach if you can't stabilise speed or approach path rate of descent etc prior to touchdown.  When you have a high level of acquired skills and recent experience in  small plane the stabilised bit of the approach can be quite  small and a skilled pilot can often recover bounces without going round in many circumstances. I bounced my first solo and had to go around and when instructing I always let the plane get obviously into a bit of a situation before I take over so the Pupil KNOWS he was in  strife but you don't want to have accidents' learning how to not have accidents like was the case  a lot of times in  service training. Nev

[IBob]

Ah, I had misunderstood you. I was not thinking to introduce a bounce. I was thinking more along the lines of setting the aircraft up in final landing configuration and attitude, but at safe altitude. Then applying full power, and experiencing and handling the pitch up.

[facthunter]

If your training does expose you to other than dead calm days, there's usually plenty of go arounds and on a lengthy runway you can reduce the number of full stop landings and get more circuits by doing touch and goes and with cross wind there's often more tricky go arounds. The student should get aware of the degree pf precise control required there to not have a contact after the first one and achieve  a safe airspeed to  safely climb away.  With Me that included a carb heat off and check full throttle applied. action track on runway extended centre line etc. ALL pretty standard. Nev

[flying dog]

I was told something like:

Bounce count:

1    --  Not good.

2    -- Seriously?

3    -- The last one!

4    -- By this stage you are planted in the runway: nose down.

 

Do NOT let it get above 2.  3 and you are really playing with danger in a very serious way.

(P.S. to clarify:  Only 1 bounce.  On the second touchdown it is WHEELS ON THE GROUND FOR GOOD.)

Edited March 18, 2023 by flying dog
to clarify

[facthunter]

The second touchdown may be fully on the nosewheel. that will either damage it or/ and pitch the plane up steeply, and that can go on till you stop.  Nev

[BrendAn]

On 18/03/2023 at 12:14 PM, IBob said:

Ah, I had misunderstood you. I was not thinking to introduce a bounce. I was thinking more along the lines of setting the aircraft up in final landing configuration and attitude, but at safe altitude. Then applying full power, and experiencing and handling the pitch up.

my instructor makes me do 1/2 and full flap configured go arounds . one bounce and throttle to full and go around . he says 2 bounces can result in a damaged aircraft. and if i are not on the ground at the halfway point of the runway thats also a signal to go around. he would never cause a bounce on purpose for training either.

[facthunter]

The instructor has to tread a "wary" path. If you want to learn fast, Instruct.  It's NOT just a matter of being able to fly OK. You have to be ready for anything , anytime.  Nev

[facthunter]

Does anyone know how the Pilot is doing? HE was supposed to be in critical condition when taken from the Plane wreckage.  Nev

[Carbon Canary]

22 hours ago, facthunter said:

Does anyone know how the Pilot is doing? HE was supposed to be in critical condition when taken from the Plane wreckage.  Nev

The pilot of VH-XGR has now been named in news reports.  

 

Bankstown plane crash, pilot Gregory Ralph in a critical condition | 7NEWS - YouTube

[old man emu]

A Jab wouldn't break up like that. 

[spenaroo]

40 minutes ago, old man emu said:

A Jab wouldn't break up like that. 

no go-around when its an engine failure

[derekliston]

Sarcastic comment, Sorry, but maybe he should have used the parachute!!! Seriously though, I hope he isn’t too badly injured and makes a quick recovery!

[flying dog]

I think - to be fair - the stirring the pot emoji did kind of give it away that was a bit of a "piss take".

 

[facthunter]

Not needed. It's pretty serious for the person involved. I think it could happen to any of us having been affected by such things myself and copped ridicule for going around.Jab owners don't need the constant  bits of wisdom/humour either. Jabirus are a significant part of our aviation scene and an Australian effort worthy of support generally. Nev

[Carbon Canary]

15 hours ago, derekliston said:

Sarcastic comment, Sorry, but maybe he should have used the parachute!!! Seriously though, I hope he isn’t too badly injured and makes a quick recovery!

There is an ATC audio floating around on the internet of the incident. It appears it all went pear-shaped very quickly for the pilot. In a similar situation if he was above 300’ pulling the chute may well have reduced his injuries. Let’s hope the poor bloke pulls through.

 

I was asked by an aircraft manufacturer if I would routinely allow my son or daughter to drive a car without seatbelts and airbags. He viewed a chute (BRS) in the same light - it’s simply standard safety equipment……and mandatory in Germany, the home of this particular manufacturer. He couldn’t understand the reluctance of uptake for BRS in Australia.

[facthunter]

Not sure the comparison is that valid. Not every aspect of a ballistic chute is positive. Not sure Ilike it being mandated. Airliners for instance have nothing resembling it. It also makes money for those who make and sell it so they'll be in favour of it.  Nev