Crazy aircraft prices

[NT5224]

Hi folks

 

I recently browsed aircraft prices and realised they appear to have gone mad. I guess it’s a post COVID thing like 4WD vehicles but more so….

 

So here’s my question. People may be asking $100000 for a flogged c172 or $140000 for an equaled weathered Champ, but are they actually changing hands at those extraordinary prices? In Recreational category I saw Jabirus and the like advertised at over $80000…

 

Are people actually paying those prices? Or are the sellers dreamin’ ?

 

Alan 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

What you are witnessing is Inflation and a loss of value of your money. Everything has gone up. IF it hasn't it's worth less than it was because demand has lessened.  Nev

[KRviator]

Sadly, they are. I've noticed a trend of RV's being advertised fairly high and then dropped over the course of a month or two, but most spam-cans do seem to be advertised at those high prices before being removed. Though there's several that haven't sold since they were advertised at stupidly high prices by brokers, too....

[Thruster88]

I have always watched the aircraft market, there are no good cheap aircraft. In 1996 I really wanted a Cessna 172M, they were then about 40k, I settled for a 25k Musketeer that I still have. Today that same 172M is worth 100k. 

[facthunter]

And unlike good wine they don't usually improve with age either. There's nothing like the look, smell and feel of a brand new aeroplane. Nev

[ClintonB]

First buyer took mine, I think I underpriced it a bit, I had a line up of people waiting for the deal to fall through.

even though it was old, everything had been redone except paint and plastics. I figured they didn’t make it fly better and I was always interested on what was outside not in.

[jackc]

Give it 12 months and there will be a drop in prices, MY opinion only……..

[walrus]

Mate had no trouble the other day selling his C 182 (garmin G1000) for well North of $500,000.

 

 

Another mate sold his - as new - Bushcat recently and he didnt have to wait long either.

Edited March 19, 2023 by walrus

[walrus]

Jackc : "Give it 12 months and there will be a drop in prices, MY opinion only…….. "

 

The  Aviation white paper will see to that.

Quote

 

 

[Thruster88]

23 hours ago, jackc said:

Give it 12 months and there will be a drop in prices, MY opinion only……..

We all thought covid would tank the used aircraft market. Quite the opposite happened. One thing to remember, they are not making anymore used aircraft, the used supply declines each year due accidents, maintenance issues etc.  New prices regardless of the category are very high. Go to the Van's store and price all the components for a RV7, the already flying RVs are excellent value. Supply and demand. 

 

Current high prices may bring more used aircraft to the market, plane sales Australia has increased from the usual 24 pages to around 32 in recent times. 

[KRviator]

I built a spreadsheet a couple months ago to price up what it would cost to replace my RV-9. Depending on the exchange rate, you'd be looking at very close to $250,000AUD. And that's not an extravagantly-equipped RV, either. There's no GTN750, no leather interior, no CS prop...Add those in and you're over the $300K mark in the blink of an eye.

Then there's the 18+ month lead time for a QB kit, and the assembly time to boot. Most used RV's are actually quite reasonably priced all things considered.

[Bosi72]

I remember about 15 years ago during the property boom, my ex work colleague was postponing buying his own property, talking how the bubble will crash very soon, etc..

 

Last I've heard, he is still renting..

[Bernie]

Its not just aircraft or homes. I just sold a motorhome for $37,000 more than I paid for it 2 years ago.

Bernie.

[Carbon Canary]

A broker advised me that aircraft hull insurance premiums are rising partly because the capital value is appreciating.  The rise in capital value is due to increasing scarcity of aircraft in the Australian market and the increased purchase and delivery costs for new aircraft.

Supply and demand. Surprisingly, the demand still seems to be there.

[jackc]

I have given up on hull insurance, IF I crash bad and die or badly injured I probably will never fly again.  If my estate needs to make a claim when I am dead…….that will end up a bun fight they don't need. IF its repairable, will just fix it out of my own pocket.  The PDS from insurance companies has a lot of escape clauses and if you read them closely you will find you may nor even be insured?  Was your Hangar engineered, if it blew away could you claim.  Is your aircraft squeaky clean in the maintenance release?  Have you done mods with no STC? Can proof be found of a medical certificate discrepancy?

Insurance companies are scumbags when it comes to claim dodging in some cases?  Dont make yours one of them……

[BrendAn]

listening to the radio this morning talking about new cars. there are 10,000 new cars sitting on boats at webb dock and in the bay waiting to pass covid quarantine before they can go to the dealers. some toyota buyers have been offered up to $20,000 by dealers on top of the purchase price to buy back vehicles they have not seen yet. 

[MattP]

I haven't really looked in a while, but was actively looking during Covid and if I use Planesales as a reference, there were on average about 120 aircraft for sale around that time, and from a quick look for SEP, it looks to be about 188 now. Of those for sale I can see quite a few that were there previously and are still listed, some for around the same price, some for more. There is one specific example I looked at closely at the time that has almost doubled in list price, and it doesn't look from the ad to be different in terms of equipment / condition, although I have no idea if the owner piled money into it to make it more viable for sale (and needed to raise the price). Other than the usual newish Cirri / dealer listings most of the GA stuff is 5+ decades old.

 

One thing I did find, however was the seemingly decent aircraft that got listed got snapped up quicky, often even as the ad listed. I know I got beaten to it a few times to the point where I gave up on the idea and went with plan B (syndicate and build later), which TBH worked out far better for my actual flying use / mission profile. I look at building as a way to get into a new aircraft and scratch an itch I've had to build forever vs. thinking I'll ever be able to convince myself $1M plus for a new Cirrus is value for me.

 

I also had multiple offers on my wife's SUV from the dealer at over what she paid retail nearly 4 years ago during Covid, but the caveat was that you wait 12+ months for a car and give your car up now. I think this shenanigans will end soon given the supply is back up and the backlog is already clearing. Good luck to those who took advantage of this, but I wouldn't be planning on buying a car low / selling high as a viable long term strategy. 

 

Having also been recently involved in the house search / auction cycle I have noticed the listing of properties with price guides as averages for auction, only to be passed in and re-listed for 2-400k more post auction, which is a sign of people being slightly more sensible at auctions but also inflated vendor price expectations. With more supply coming onto the market as rates rise, it will be interesting to see the impact this has on house prices, as well as luxury items such as cars / planes given these are often the first to go in a pinch. This being said, given the average age of most GA / RA pilots putting them into the baby boomer / older gen-X range where mortgage payments aren't as much of an issue anymore and wealth has been built, this may also not happen for the rec aircraft market. Who knows? 

 

 

 

[Carbon Canary]

A European LSA aircraft I was looking at had a 5% price rise in Nov last year in response to rises in input costs in Europe. This was on top of a similar price rise the year before, but I think that was still less than inflation in Europe. The big killer was the substantial increase in global shipping costs last year to ridiculous levels and very long lead times.

 

No doubt rising sale prices of new aircraft raises the value of 2nd hand aircraft as well. Particularly in Australia where importing aircraft is an expensive and pain in the A exercise. So the old adage of ‘having the right stuff at the right place at the right time means you can charge whatever you want’, tends to hold true.

[facthunter]

Supply & demand and how much spare $$$'s is around affects demand.  I'm a bit surprised at the demand. It's not for geting  around. It's for fun mostly.  How many actually NEED a plane as distinct from want or would like.?  Nev

Edited March 24, 2023 by facthunter

[spacesailor]

'' older gen-x range where mortgage payments aren't as much of an issue anymore and wealth has been built, ''.

most of us Older gen are still behind the younger '' working '' generation as that Wealth is only on PAPER ! . we can't spend any of the $millions locked in the Bricks of our houses. even without that mortgage . 

A lot of us can't find an hours flight time a month , Don't smoke, Don't drink, Don't gamble,  And still poor.

spacesailor

[jackc]

11 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

'' older gen-x range where mortgage payments aren't as much of an issue anymore and wealth has been built, ''.

most of us Older gen are still behind the younger '' working '' generation as that Wealth is only on PAPER ! . we can't spend any of the $millions locked in the Bricks of our houses. even without that mortgage . 

A lot of us can't find an hours flight time a month , Don't smoke, Don't drink, Don't gamble,  And still poor.

spacesailor

And, don’t  have enough time left on the Earth to build a plane.  Need to buy RTF and just hit the sky,  ASAP 🙂 

[trailer]

Only 17 aircraft for sale in the RAus members market currently, don't remember ever seeing so few l. Might be why some prices seem high to some. Don't seem unreasonable to me.

 

https://aviationclassifieds.com.au/

[Blueadventures]

4 hours ago, trailer said:

Only 17 aircraft for sale in the RAus members market currently, don't remember ever seeing so few l. Might be why some prices seem high to some. Don't seem unreasonable to me.

 

https://aviationclassifieds.com.au/

Cost of advertising is a consideration for some.

[BrendAn]

They must be selling ok. There were 34 on there not long ago.

[Carbon Canary]

I just flicked through a 2014 issue of Sportpilot, and there were 116 aircraft for sale. The most recent Sportpilot had 32.

 

what does this tell us ??