rotax 912 ULS. How many metres of fire sleeve?

[danny_galaga]

Anyone got a ball park figure to do the fuel lines? Also, I see two sizes available - 14mm and 16mm. Reckon I should just get 16mm to cover my bases?

[Blueadventures]

25 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

Anyone got a ball park figure to do the fuel lines? Also, I see two sizes available - 14mm and 16mm. Reckon I should just get 16mm to cover my bases?

Measure the o.d. well as the fire sleeve can be a tight fit.  Also you will see to plug the fuel hose end as you thread it to stop the inner fluff of the fire sleeve getting in the fuel hose.

[danny_galaga]

Im reading more about it now. I think I am raising more questions than I am finding answers for! In my kit, it comes with insulation for the fuel hose, but not fire sleeve. Was easy to see what to do with the insulation, but not so with the fire sleeve. 

 

I will have a look in the mechanics hangar tomorrow. Funny, how I've looked at the Tecnams engine bay a hundred times when doing the morning inspection, but I cant recall the specifics of the fire sleeving, other than its orangey and looks rough 😄

Edited March 21, 2023 by danny_galaga

[Old Koreelah]

As bluey says, get the larger size, because it has to fit over your hose clamps. You’ll need to pull the fire shield back to install and tighten the clamps.

[Marty_d]

Talking about fire sleeve, what do you use to clamp it at each end?

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, Marty_d said:

Talking about fire sleeve, what do you use to clamp it at each end?

I've done a bit more snooping. Looks like BAND CLAMPS are the go 

 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/eatonclamps_900591B5C.php?clickkey=36097

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Before you head down the "fire sleeve" rout, ask yourself why you want to install them???

 

Seems to me the possible reasons might be:

• Slow the impact of fire - more time to land
• Heat insulation - reduce the chances of fuel vaporisation
• Abrasion/rubbing control
• Aesthetics - all the mates have it, looks professional (as in certified aircraft)

Then you might ask again how effective is the fire sleeve in addressing each point???

 

Fire protection

Sure it will retard/slow the effects of an engine fire, when correctly installed. I have never seen a correctly installed fire sleeve on RAA aircraft . What I see is unlikely to give much additional protection in the event of an engine fire (Note: I did not say no protection).

 

Heat Insulation

Yep! Definitely reduces the impact of radiant heat  but at a cost well above what the recreational pilot could make for themselves using automotive/plumbing materials.

 

Abrasion/rubbing control

As above and or using preloved (or new) hose sections, strategically placed.

 

Aesthetics

We all have aesthetic standards that we like to implement - personal choice

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, danny_galaga said:

I've done a bit more snooping. Looks like BAND CLAMPS are the go 

 

 

Double wrap safety wire will be just as effective at a fraction of the cost/weight.

[danny_galaga]

Yes, I had a look in the hangar. Couldn't check the tecnam. Had a look at a Foxbat and it had ultra professional you -beaut fancy crimped hoses. But looking around my hangar, I see a Rotax with absolutely nothing, and a Jabiru with fire sleeve but not finished properly at the ends. 

 

I think I'll just go with what's in the kit, which is insulation to stop the fuel getting hot and stop hoses rubbing. That'll do 🙂

Edited March 22, 2023 by danny_galaga

[rodgerc]

4 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Talking about fire sleeve, what do you use to clamp it at each end?

I used self-fusing silicone tape that worked a treat and cost me a kidney….However I noticed last week that Supercheap sell self-fusing silicone tape for about 1/5th of the price I paid from my fire sleeve supplier. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by rodgerc
Photo added

[Old Koreelah]

Pictures please!

[Marty_d]

6 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

I've done a bit more snooping. Looks like BAND CLAMPS are the go 

 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/eatonclamps_900591B5C.php?clickkey=36097

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Damn, it didn't show the most interesting thing from band camp!

I've already bought fire sleeve (ebay) to slow fire not looks.  Bunnings Aerospace sell stainless zip ties that look similar to the band camps.

[kgwilson]

Fire sleeve includes insulation so both are not required. Stainless safety tie wire is a good as anything and cheap. Easy to get off with side cutters & replace with new.

[skippydiesel]

43 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

Damn, it didn't show the most interesting thing from band camp!

I've already bought fire sleeve (ebay) to slow fire not looks.  Bunnings Aerospace sell stainless zip ties that look similar to the band camps.

Yes!  Bunnings Aerospace sells the metal zip/cable ties - I have/ am using them but I find that a double wrap safety wire clamps tighter (if that's what you want) and at a fraction of the price. True, not as smart looking.

 

Speculation: If you/I have an engine fire, I suspect that the outcome is likely to be dire, no matter what precautions we may take -  stating the obvious - we fly very light weight aircraft,  use "rubber" fuel/oil hoses,  they wont put up with much heat and the proximity of fuel (in or overhead fuselage) doesn't help. Not against using fire sleeves just wonder about their effectiveness (especially the way most are installed)

[Old Koreelah]

Skip my installation is pretty rough, but covers the rubber. What else should we do?

[skippydiesel]

21 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said:

Skip my installation is pretty rough, but covers the rubber. What else should we do?

Not saying don't do (especially if it makes you/pilot feel safer) just questioning its effectiveness -  Think about it - fire resistant sleeve, over most (not all) of "rubber" hose, subjected to fuel or oil fire. If your realy lucky, may give you an additional few seconds, to make that emergency landing but likelihood is that fire melts hose,- most vulnerable at connections but the heat will melt hose inside fire sleeve - releasing more fuel/oil - fire melts electrical wires/components & starts to melt alloys - how long  before disaster ???? my uninformed guess- within minutes. Much will depend on how quickly pilot realises he/she has a problem and isolates fuel/electrical system (cant do much for the oil) hopefully cutting off the source of the fire.

 

Prevention is by far the best "cure" - pay attention to hose routing (allow adequate flex/length to accommodate engine movement), prevent heating  from exhaust system, abrasion/rubbing. Make sure all connections (including lectrical) are as safe as you can make them. Use quality hose & suitable clamps. Inspect engine compartment at every opportunity and address oil/fuel leaks/weeps and loose electrical connections, before next flight.

 

I have orange fire sleeve on my new Sonex - came with it. I wont be removing it  and in a bit under 5 years will probably reuse what I can BUT had no such enhancement on my last aircraft and was just as "happy".

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Another aspect is how high you are if fire breaks out. I like to go above the bumpy stuff, which means minutes to get down.

A farmer mate loves to stay low, presumably to check out the farmland. He might get nose-bleed above circuit height, but at least he can put it on the ground quickly.

[danny_galaga]

I guess the best thing for fire protection is the ability to switch off the fuel

[Lucky01]

We heat shrink fire sleeve ends in the mines.