alternative fuel pump for Rotax 912ULS

[danny_galaga]

I found a link to something that would have been a great replacement, but it seems to be a dead end. For whatever reason, they didn't catch on

 

http://www.billetpump.com/

 

Is there anything else like this out there?

 

For now, I've just ordered a genuine fuel pump,

 

but it is a bit of a gyp isnt it, having to replace them every five years. In the automotive world, with their 'made by the million' specs, diaphragm fuel pumps easily lasted decades. It seems nonsense to me Rotax fuel pumps cant last at least ten years. Are they made by Ducati, like the regulator/rectifiers? 😄

[facthunter]

It's in an aeroplane where you replace things long before there's a big chance of them failing..Being in constant contact with what goes for Petrol is a hard ask too.. Nev

[danny_galaga]

2 minutes ago, facthunter said:

It's in an aeroplane where you replace things long before there's a big chance of them failing..Being in constant contact with what goes for Petrol is a hard ask too.. Nev

And yet the equivalent in an older car, in constant contact with the same fuel it would go decades. If it can last decades, I think replacing after ten years is more reasonable. Anyway, what's the point of the electric pump if you don't get to use it occasionally in an emergency 😄

 

In any case, my big question is, is there anything out there like that Billet Pump solution for Rotax? From what I can tell, there is no diaphragm to perish.

[facthunter]

I've worked on cars from a young age and had to replace/ repair plenty of Petrol pumps of the mechanical type. Electric (SU) types were even worse. A 20 year old car is a far from new car and more work had to be done on the older ones than what we drive today where most people hardly ever look under the bonnet and would have no idea where to start even if they did.  Nev

[spacesailor]

We Don,t look under that bonnt !.

Because it's a " throwaway part " thats Can't be serviced I E , no more ' grease nipples ' to get lubed. 

Use it till it dies , THEN GET TOWED . To replace that known , ' unreliable ' crap that cost a few cents ,less , to the manufacturer .

A point in today's world . Ford has an issue with E G R units,  burning through & blowing radiator coolent out , thereby cooking the motor.

WHO told the New owner ? .

Not blooody Ford !.

spacesailor

[danny_galaga]

40 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I've worked on cars from a young age and had to replace/ repair plenty of Petrol pumps of the mechanical type. Electric (SU) types were even worse. A 20 year old car is a far from new car and more work had to be done on the older ones than what we drive today where most people hardly ever look under the bonnet and would have no idea where to start even if they did.  Nev

This is all true, but if you specifically talk about mechanical diaphragm fuel pumps, I've never heard of any car fuel pumps having to be replaced every five years. Were a y of the diaphragm pumps you replaced less than five years old? Or were they 30 year old EH utes etc? 

 

While it's true an aircraft ENGINE has a harder time of it than a car engine, I don't see that an aircraft FUEL PUMP is under that much more duress. 

 

And if so, then ditch the diaphragm, and go with a piston design (which I imagine was the Billet Pump solution) . They had tested theirs to 2500 hours, which is 500 more than the engine is supposed to go for. 

 

If non rubber diaphragm, you don't have the time constraint, just hours operated, like the rest of the engine. 

 

It did sound like the  Billet Pump fuel pump was more expensive than a standard Rotax one, but since it was supposed to last longer than the engine, you would no longer have to worry about it.

 

Look at it another way. You used to be able to rebuild fuel pumps. Not so the Rotax. Nice little earner for Rotax. Why sell you a $100 kit, when you can sell a whole pump?

Edited March 26, 2023 by danny_galaga

[facthunter]

I'd replace them before they failed. Same as a fan belt, alternator or water pump. In a plane much before they failed. It's reliable functioning you seek so  chucking if while it's  still working fine is what you do in planes. Rotax charging too much is another matter but replacing a unit is often cost effective when human time is  taken into account.  A Cortina water pump was cheaper than  a Kit at one time but people still bought the kit.   Nev

[danny_galaga]

So no one knows about the company I linked to in the first post? Or another like it?

[pmccarthy]

I just sold a BMW boxer that was 38 years old. I never changed the carby diaphragms in all that time. Basically the same ones in a Rotax have to be changed every five years. So the level of caution is quite high.

[BrendAn]

4 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

This is all true, but if you specifically talk about mechanical diaphragm fuel pumps, I've never heard of any car fuel pumps having to be replaced every five years. Were a y of the diaphragm pumps you replaced less than five years old? Or were they 30 year old EH utes etc? 

 

While it's true an aircraft ENGINE has a harder time of it than a car engine, I don't see that an aircraft FUEL PUMP is under that much more duress. 

 

And if so, then ditch the diaphragm, and go with a piston design (which I imagine was the Billet Pump solution) . They had tested theirs to 2500 hours, which is 500 more than the engine is supposed to go for. 

 

If non rubber diaphragm, you don't have the time constraint, just hours operated, like the rest of the engine. 

 

It did sound like the  Billet Pump fuel pump was more expensive than a standard Rotax one, but since it was supposed to last longer than the engine, you would no longer have to worry about it.

 

Look at it another way. You used to be able to rebuild fuel pumps. Not so the Rotax. Nice little earner for Rotax. Why sell you a $100 kit, when you can sell a whole pump?

All the parts and hoses including fuel pump for a 5 year replacement are around $2000. $400 per year. I don't think that is too bad for an aircraft.

[jackc]

I have always applied the policy of replacement before failure. 1HZ Landcruiser get a recommended timing belt kit every 100,000km so I do waterpump, all belts, hoses, thermostat at the same time.  I even keep a spare rebuilt injector pump in my spares cache 🙂.  I even have brand new in boxes H55 transmission and matching transfer case too, amongst brake pads, linings.,  bearing kits and even a complete fan to flywheel 1HZ engine with 200k on it, 2F petrol motor 125k I bought 30 years ago.  The list goes on……

Now collecting aircraft spares 🙂 

[danny_galaga]

Are you replacing your gearbox every five years 😄

[Area-51]

Rotax had their first style of pump manufactured by an italian company; not sure who produces them now... first edition looks like it is off a Saab 90; but have never seen a Saab 90 fuel pump in real life.... 🤷🏼‍♂️ Both versions are non serviceable items.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Area-51

[BrendAn]

22 minutes ago, Area-51 said:

Rotax had their first style of pump manufactured by an italian company; not sure who produces them now... first edition looks like it is off a Saab 90; but have never seen a Saab 90 fuel pump in real life.... 🤷🏼‍♂️ Both versions are non serviceable items.

The earlier version should replaced. It has no drain nipple so any diaphragm leakage ends up in the engine.

[Area-51]

The simple answer to this situation is simply to fly more often; burn through all of your allowed engine hours before the five years is up and you will never have to change hoses pumps or service the carburettors ever 🤷🏼‍♂️

[skippydiesel]

13 hours ago, BrendAn said:

The earlier version should replaced. It has no drain nipple so any diaphragm leakage ends up in the engine.

On my last aircraft the origional (non drain) fuel pump was still delivering the specified fuel pressure, when I replaced it at about 17 years/400 hrs  (I was the third owner and probably the only one to do the 5 year rubber/pump replacement)

[danny_galaga]

57 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

On my last aircraft the origional (non drain) fuel pump was still delivering the specified fuel pressure, when I replaced it at about 17 years/400 hrs  (I was the third owner and probably the only one to do the 5 year rubber/pump replacement)

It's what I'm getting at. Surely they can go to ten before replacing? If not, then surely a safer system would be better. Or at least the option.

[RossK]

14 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

Are you replacing your gearbox every five years 😄

Its a Toyota, not a Landrover 

[BrendAn]

3 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

On my last aircraft the origional (non drain) fuel pump was still delivering the specified fuel pressure, when I replaced it at about 17 years/400 hrs  (I was the third owner and probably the only one to do the 5 year rubber/pump replacement)

i think the idea is to replace with the drain type in case of failure. not because it will fail. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by BrendAn

[skippydiesel]

36 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

i think the idea is to replace with the drain type in case of failure. not because it will fail. 

Agreed! but does make you pause, just for a moment, when complying ($$$$)  with the 5 year replacement requirement.

[Area-51]

Drill a 3.0mm hole through the bottom casing of the 20 year old pump and force in a bit of brass tube from the local model shop with a bunnings aerospace precision vice press... now it is compliant and still displaying the BRP logo... make sure to add the full details of mod to the aircraft's maintenance release before further flights... attach some 3M blutak to the side of the case so if it starts leaking you can plug it up once you have completed the text book emergency landing on the sports field... carry some flares so you can tell which way to take off once the blutak is all used up...

[Kyle Communications]

I replaced mine with these..same pump just rotate the housing 180 deg...made by the same mob. landed 2 here for $170 inc the freight. The only difference is no brass drain just a drain hole

 

https://spareto.com/products/pierburg-fuel-pump/7-02242-32-0

[danny_galaga]

2 hours ago, Kyle Communications said:

I replaced mine with these..same pump just rotate the housing 180 deg...made by the same mob. landed 2 here for $170 inc the freight. The only difference is no brass drain just a drain hole

 

https://spareto.com/products/pierburg-fuel-pump/7-02242-32-0

Of course I've just gone and ordered a Rotax one 😂

 

But that part number goes in my list of spare parts now. Thanks for the info. Might buy one of these as well. How long have you run this one? Do you know if others are using them?

[Area-51]

3 hours ago, Kyle Communications said:

I replaced mine with these..same pump just rotate the housing 180 deg...made by the same mob. landed 2 here for $170 inc the freight. The only difference is no brass drain just a drain hole

 

https://spareto.com/products/pierburg-fuel-pump/7-02242-32-0

Yes, these are listed as same part used for non fuel injected Saab 99...

 

So is the bolt pattern and plunger shaft depth off the deck the same dimension as the factory 912 unit?

[Kyle Communications]

15 hours ago, Area-51 said:

Yes, these are listed as same part used for non fuel injected Saab 99...

 

So is the bolt pattern and plunger shaft depth off the deck the same dimension as the factory 912 unit?

yes