Light plane crash The Oaks, 30 March 2023 (edited)

[trailer]

3 hours ago, mkennard said:

Saw John yesterday

How is he doing?

[mkennard]

Broken nose and left thumb. Some bruises elsewhere but in good spirits. Looking at the plane, I'm so amazed that was all.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, mkennard said:

If you listen to his video he said the were 1500ft, that is not agl so more likely 600ft agl

Low time student, given to exaggeration (see video) - I would be a little sceptical about any statement/claim made.

[trailer]

25 minutes ago, mkennard said:

in good spirits

That's fantastic news. Hopefully he is back in the air soon. Lots of us wishing him a speedy recovery.

[turboplanner]

5 hours ago, mkennard said:

Saw John yesterday. They started loosing power very early on the upwind leg after a touch and go. He took over and managed to get the plane completly around lined up for the runway and the engine quit. 2 more trees to go, to much energy to put it down straight away and he aimed for the base and between the trees and flippped when the nose wheel hit scrub.

 

I don't usually like commenting like this but there is a lot of speculaion. 

It would be good if, when feeling better, he went through the sequence for us and comment on where he would do the same thing again and where he wouldn't. This would be much more useful for learners and other pilots, particularly since this sounds like an EFATo with the extra momentum of the rolling start.

 

We can then forget about the tash talk and learn something.

[mkennard]

AFAIK he's not on any forums or facebook. He did explain in good detail. The main part was he didn't think he could get over the tree so he aimed between them towards the base of the trunks so the wings would take the energy. Would have worked if the front wheel didn't catch on the scrub. 

 

As for the turn back, that's the problem with partial EFAT, John knows the plane and so close to pulling it off. Imagine if he had 5 more seconds of power. What we can learn is maybe don't trust partial engine failures low to the ground. 

 

I've left the carb heat on and you defintely feel it but I didn't put it into a paddock, I worked it out pretty quickly. It's hard to judge when your not there.

[facthunter]

Part failures are the hardest to manage. Nev

[BrendAn]

i really want to believe jabs are a good engine because they are local . but there are just too many engine failures, i am not jab bashing ,i am stating a fact. surely they must be made to fix these problems.

[facthunter]

A" fit and forget" piston engine has never yet been made. If it was that easy many would have done it. Some get a good run out of their school engines." Made to Fix." they are installed and operated under a wide range of conditions.  WHAT does that cause". Sounds good but no one will be making anything for Planes if we approach things that way. WE don't know what caused this failure yet. There's a lot of Jabs flying and some have been sitting too long. Believe me there are a lot worse engines out there. Some of these motors aren't made any more. Do we want to prescriptively ground them? CASA did that already/ IF  they go what else goes with them.? Fly like your motor is going to fail Look after it in a knowledgeable way.  Nev

[BrendAn]

withdrawn

Edited April 3, 2023 by BrendAn

[BrendAn]

13 minutes ago, facthunter said:

A" fit and forget" piston engine has never yet been made. If it was that easy many would have done it. Some get a good run out of their school engines." Made to Fix." they are installed and operated under a wide range of conditions.  WHAT does that cause". Sounds good but no one will be making anything for Planes if we approach things that way. WE don't know what caused this failure yet. There's a lot of Jabs flying and some have been sitting too long. Believe me there are a lot worse engines out there. Some of these motors aren't made any more. Do we want to prescriptively ground them? CASA did that already/ IF  they go what else goes with them.? Fly like your motor is going to fail Look after it in a knowledgeable way.  Nev

trying to remove my post so i do not detract from the topic. as usual it will not let me.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

i really want to believe jabs are a good engine because they are local . but there are just too many engine failures, i am not jab bashing ,i am stating a fact. surely they must be made to fix these problems.

They did.

[BrendAn]

2 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

They did.

when

[planedriver]

Ask almost anyone who flew a lot with the early !600 motors, and over the years has progressed to the current engines, and i'm sure it will reveal very significant improvements.

It all takes time to learn, sometimes from negative events.

Whatever you make, buying the Mk 1 version of almost anything,comes with the knowledge that things are likely to change from your original purchase.

Compared with well known overseas purchases, I think Jabiru have responded to to any negative aspects and problems encountered in a positive way, and with proper attention as per manufacturers recommendations, it seems to be apparent that many flight schools are getting very acceptable hours of reliable operation at a very acceptable price..

However, there are many aircraft that sit around in hangers doing next to nothing and if they're lucky,get to fly just few hours a year, but whose owners expect them to perform like they've just come off a production line, and sadly in the many cases, that ain't going to happen.

Edited April 3, 2023 by planedriver

[BrendAn]

14 minutes ago, planedriver said:

Ask almost anyone who flew a lot with the early !600 motors, and over the years has progressed to the current engines, and i'm sure it will reveal very significant improvements.

It all takes time to learn, sometimes from negative events.

Whatever you make, buying the Mk 1 version of almost anything,comes with the knowledge that things are likely to change from your original purchase.

Compared with well known overseas purchases, I think Jabiru have responded to to any negative aspects and problems encountered in a positive way, and with proper attention as per manufacturers recommendations, it seems to be apparent that many flight schools are getting very acceptable hours of reliable operation at an acceptable price..

From what I have been told the 1600 was brilliant and the early solid lifter motors were great too. Has the gen4 overcome all the troubles of the last few models.

[old man emu]

That plane was one of John's babies. He poured a lot of effort into maintaining it.

[coljones]

5 hours ago, BrendAn said:

From what I have been told the 1600 was brilliant and the early solid lifter motors were great too. Has the gen4 overcome all the troubles of the last few models.

Can you provide links to any authoritative sources?

[turboplanner]

8 hours ago, BrendAn said:

when

You need to do the research on this site, you'll find the charts with the numbers for several years, when Gen 4 came in, and you can do your own chart for a cople of years since Gen 4 started, and that will tell you with reasonable accuracy.

 

[BrendAn]

3 hours ago, coljones said:

Can you provide links to any authoritative sources?

Can you 

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

You need to do the research on this site, you'll find the charts with the numbers for several years, when Gen 4 came in, and you can do your own chart for a cople of years since Gen 4 started, and that will tell you with reasonable accuracy.

 

So your saying gen 4 has all the bugs ironed out.

[kgwilson]

No engine ever made by man has all of the bugs ironed out. They all fail. Rotax engines have a reputation for reliability but they fail too, as do Continental, Lycoming etc. There are probably more Jabirus in flying schools around Australia than any other type. The number of hours they do far oustrips any thing in private ownership. Many make TBO  but not that many are overhauled simply because it is less expensive to purchase a brand new one. There seems to be a a lot of Jabiru knockers in Australia while in other countries around the world they have a good reputation.

[old man emu]

6 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

There seems to be a a lot of Jabiru knockers in Australia while in other countries around the world they have a good reputation.

Tall poppy syndrome?

 

7 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

The number of hours they do far oustrips any thing in private ownership.

I was talking t the owner of a C-182 on the weekend and talking about the cost on maintenance. I asked him how many hours his aircraft did in the last year. He told me 30. A flying school Jab, if he weather is good, will easily do that in a week and a half, so every 20 days or so it gets at least and oil change. How many other aircraft sit for months with the oil draining off the top end and slowly decomposing in the sump?

[Old Koreelah]

41 minutes ago, old man emu said:

How many other aircraft sit for months with the oil draining off the top end and slowly decomposing in the sump?

Add some Camgard to each new oil fill. It sticks to cams like the proverbial.

[Area-51]

Somebody asked who flies downwind... Often practice downwind landings and take offs; sometimes gusting; up to a determined airspeed at the windsock... its challenging, there is a higher risk of a wing dropping, and provides a greater appreciation of the aircraft's flight characteristics along with aspects of dealing with windshear as the aircraft behaves very differently; the controls can suddenly feel loose and sudden altitude drops of 50' can occur instantly... rounding out and approach on final is at much greater airspeed, and adding another 10-15% overall airspeed to mitigate sudden drops in wind speed affects ground speed again... the sudden illusion of speed coming over the fence is deceptive; monitoring the ASI is going to save winding things up in a ball; same with take off... trust the ASI.

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, BrendAn said:

So your saying gen 4 has all the bugs ironed out.

No, I said do your research.