On fuel bulk storage, getting clean fuel and so on.

[old man emu]

Usually, the reason for a high price for an item using a new idea is that its patent might still be in force. In Australia that is 20 years, which seems to be the international standard. During the life of the patent, the owner can price an item so that the costs of getting the item to a marketable stage and then setting up manufacturing can be recouped, plus a profit. Once the patent period has expired, then the idea is available for everyone to use. That's what happened with the oscillating multi-tool.

This type of oscillating tool was originally developed by the German manufacturer Fein in 1967 with a design intended to remove plaster casts easily without cutting the patient.  It was produced by C. & E. Fein GmbH along with a broad assortment of accessories.

When Fein's patent expired in October 2008 other tool makers started creating similar products

[skippydiesel]

5 hours ago, kgwilson said:

I'd say the market is pretty small so there is not enough demand for a side filling option. They also don't seem to have any competitors so that is reflected in the price. If somebody else made a teflon coated 50 micron gauze filter that worked the same, there'd be some competition & the price would drop. If there was a big enough market the Chinese would have been pumping them out before now. They do make a flexible extension hose for the F3 & F8 models available from Bunnings for an extra $13.50. I am surprised at how they have more than doubled in price in 8 years though.

How many cars/utes have a horizontal fill point??

 

There is cheap competition - just Google and you will find them - as for filter performance ????

[danny_galaga]

On 06/04/2023 at 1:39 AM, walrus said:

 

Do NOT let fuel sit and evaporate in carburettor float bowls, run the engine bone dry with the fuel off. Anyone who has had to clean out a small motor carb will know this.

 

See images at https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2020/aair/ao-2020-065

 

 

 

Apart from that, full tanks to minimise opportunities for condensation.

 

 

Then this:

 

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/country-sites/en_au/australia/home/products-services/fuels/opal-factsheet-storagehandling.pdf

So I learnt to fly in a Piper, and yes the standard procedure was to shut the mixture off . But now I've re-learnt to fly with RA-AUS, it seems with Rotax the standard way is just shut the ignition switches off.

 

What are your thoughts on that? Does anyone shut down Rotax via fuel switch?

[facthunter]

Running the motor out of fuel would be a rougher shut down than the lowest idle on one Mag  then OFF is.  Nev

[danny_galaga]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

Running the motor out of fuel would be a rougher shut down than the lowest idle on one Mag  then OFF is.  Nev

I'll stick with that then 🙂

[walrus]

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2020/aair/ao-2020-065

 

Have a look at the carbs 😞

 

You don't have to drain them every time but don't leave the plane for months and let them dry out with unleaded fuel in the bowls.

[KRviator]

On 06/04/2023 at 6:49 AM, mkennard said:

I tried looking for the regs on transporting fuel, like jerry cans in a car and couldn't find them. Can someone send the links for NSW please.

Okay, going back maaaany years to my DG Course with the Defence Force, there's no state-based standards, the "official" book is known as "Australian Code for the Transport of Dangerous Goods by Road & Rail". And it applies nationwide. Even in the Democratic People's Republic of McGowanstan. And this bible says you can carry a total of upto 1000L or KG of [most]dangerous goods before it was considered a "Placard Load" - which is when you need UN marking, training, PPE and all that jazz. "Dangerous Goods in Bulk" is another matter, and meant goods in a single container whose size was greater than 1000L, from memory and DG in bulk = automatic placard load. DG not in bulk, such as your 44's, jerry can's or your 9Kg BBQ bottles comes down to the aggregate quantity of DG on board your vehicle.

So, the short answer is you can carry upto 4 x 44's of gasoline-based fuel on a vehicle before you need to worry about officialdom . Of course, filling those 44's at a lot of servo's is getting harder and harder...

[old man emu]

Since I plan to be able to assist pilots to obtain Mogas at the Event in May, I had a look at some videos about the Mister Funnel, and noted some comment from contributors here. So I decided to buy one to have available on the day.

 

First step in finding one was to look if Bunnings have them. They do show them, but when I asked about them I was told they could only be obtained through their Special Orders section.  Luckily I happened to find them in a mower shop in Dubbo.

 

The shop had them in three sizes, roughly container sized of 500 ml. 1 litre and 2 litre (don't quote me, that's just a guestimate). After checking the prices at the mower shop, I reckon that the one from Bunnings is the 500 ml one and would be as useless as tits on a bull for aircraft. The price is about $35. The 1 litre one looks to be the most convenient size for control of pouring - cost about $55. The 2 litre one is probably overkill - cost $75.

 

These funnels don't come with a long spout - extra $13 - or bodgy one from another cheap funnel.

 

IMPORTANT SAFETY WARNING!

Never seen this on a funnel before, but the Mister Funnel carries the warning: "Static electricity can ignite fuel and its vapours."  I'm going to make up an earthing strap to connect the funnel and jerry can to the plane, which should be earthed as well.

[kgwilson]

The black ones are the only sort to buy. They have a conductive carbon pigment in the plastic so they are not susceptible to static electricity. Details attached.

MR FUNNEL AUSTRALIA SAFETY INFO FLYER.pdf

[RFguy]

Low speeds is bad and hard on the gearbox and everything, Rotax specifically recommend minimum time at low RPM. 

Probably depends of you have fuel that is likely to varnish up, or evap (ethanol etc)  in the bowls, or not, to whether you want to starve the bowls dry on shutdown me thinks.

Mr Funnel comment- buy the one with dual filters- otherwise it will not keep up with a 20 litre jerry pour.

Edited April 18, 2023 by RFguy

[old man emu]

5 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

The black ones are the only sort to buy.

 

4 minutes ago, RFguy said:

buy the one with dual filters-

Well, thanks for the Late Edition news.  I might as well take the one I bought back since it only has a flow rate of 13.25 litres per minute, meaning it would take 1 minute and 30 seconds to filter 20 litres of fuel, which came from a brand new underground bulk tank and was carried 50 kms in a clean container.

[RFguy]

do that. The twin filter Mr Funnel I have will keep up with a 20 litre jerry being poured in at max rate... Ideally, you need to fashion a collar for it to sit on- stops it falling over slightly,  I use a I think 50mm long , 6" diameter bit of poly pipe with a antyi-scratch bead of edging on the bottom. .  the collar becomes necessary as the things starts to slosh around when the pour rate is high

[old man emu]

10 hours ago, RFguy said:

do that

Nah. I was being sarcastic.

[facthunter]

Some carburettors won't completely empty the bowl when the engine cuts when you try to run the fuel out of them. This gives a little bit of protection from water.  Often the only way to completely empty such things is by air blast. When you remove the bowl it's easy to see if this is the case. it's a pity the bowls can't be drained from a definite low point in all set-ups.  Nev.

[skippydiesel]

Check out Alemlube Funnels - wide selection (I think my two are the "Wide Mouth" 😁variety)They come with screw on covers, to keep them clean and educe smells in the cockpit and all you need to make a filter funnel is a piece of filter cloth (one of mine) or a modified gauze, in line filter that fits tightly in the "neck" (the other one ).

[skippydiesel]

On 19/04/2023 at 9:11 AM, RFguy said:

do that. The twin filter Mr Funnel I have will keep up with a 20 litre jerry being poured in at max rate... Ideally, you need to fashion a collar for it to sit on- stops it falling over slightly,  I use a I think 50mm long , 6" diameter bit of poly pipe with a antyi-scratch bead of edging on the bottom. .  the collar becomes necessary as the things starts to slosh around when the pour rate is high

Maate! Take it from an old fart who probably buggered his back sometime between 20 & 40 (bullet proof) and  now 30 years on, is forced to be extremely cautious about lifting anything heavier than 10 kg - you should not be pouring from 20L fuel containers - you will lily live to regret it..

[facthunter]

I think I alluded to this at the beginning of this lengthy discussion. The last thing you want is an iffy back. It's the awkwardness rather than the actual weight involved.  Nev

[spacesailor]

NO.

It's not the weight or how tricky it is ! .

In my case 7 years of lifting 35 kls 100s of times a day did my back in. ( collapsed vertebrae ) .

Strong as an ox .but thick as a bull . I could & did many times , throw a full size oxygen cylinder onto my shoulder to replace an empty one . ( now thats heavy 85 klgms ) .

spacesailor