Leighton Beach WA light aircraft ditched 20.04.2023

[spacesailor]

But will the ' insurer ' sell-off the wreck .

Then that ' cheap ' aircraft will have a nice new owner ! .

As the "  never to be registered " tag doesn't apply. 

spacesailor

[planedriver]

There'd have to be a few old blokes on here who can longer fly, who'd love to have it as a static display in their garage, while they sit in it making engine noises and spitting on the inside of the windshield.

Edited April 24, 2023 by planedriver

[facthunter]

Hope I'LL EVER be that desperate but for those inclined, fit a windscreen wiper on the inside of the windshield. Those later Pipers were not well corrosion proofed and you'd never stop the "Cancer" speading. Not nice to watch.  Nev

[spacesailor]

'' There'd have to be a few old blokes on here who can longer fly, who'd love to have it as a static display in their garage, while they sit in it making engine noises and spitting on the inside of the windshield ''

 YES But you can get your Thrill with a little HummelBird . LoL

spacesailor

[danny_galaga]

I would hope for safeties sake that when it's written off by the assessor, that it is immediately destroyed.

[Thruster88]

A worthwhile interview with pilot Michelle who is very honest about what they could have done differently after the engine started surging. 

 

 

Ep 85 - Interview with Pilot Michelle Yeates - Ditching Piper Arrow VH-FEY - Flight Training Australia Podcast

WWW.FLIGHTTRAININGAUSTRALIA.COM.AU

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Engine failure or malfunction involving Piper Aircraft Corp PA-28-181, registration VH-FEY, 12 NM WSW Jandakot Airport, WA on 20 April 2023I chat with pilot Michelle Yeates on her experience ditching off...

 

[RFguy]

honest with themselves and others, and wiling always to accept and evaluate criticism  are the pilots that I can fly with.  Remember what Viper said, " A good pilot is compelled to critically evaluate  themselves so they can improve" etc.  

[RFguy]

1500' is hard.  and she had to turn into the wind. room for one steep descending U turn, nothing else. 

Sounds like she did fine. It's one thing to practice, another thing to be severely time compressed and do all the steps.

 

She says she didn't switch the tanks  and was dirty with herself about it.  But I dunno if there was enough altitude /time to switch the tanks and have the good tank deliver fuel to the carburettor.......  especially if the lines were now full of water... I wonder if she looked at fuel pressure, that gauge is there also.    But you might show fuel pressure if it was water, also. "fluid pressure"

 

a filter missing off the pickup eh.  a few things....

 

Was the aircraft perfectly level when she was draining out all the water ? I might drain them empty if there was that much water. 

 

4 gallons in the right tank eh that's not much,  that might be something to consider if you'd pulled a litre  of water out of the wing.... but fine if you intend to go over to the fuller tank for landing phase. It's what I do, I have run my right tank down to 4 gallons and go onto the left tank with copius fuel  . 

 

Piper floor air vents  - close them for ditching ! I will remember that. 

The water  in the fuel eh.  I've never seen water in my fuel.. not ever, and the way pipe caps are done the only way water is getting in is in the source....

My guess is the engine fuel system got a bucket of water in it and that was the end of that.

Edited July 4, 2023 by RFguy

[RFguy]

I wonder what the fuel pressure gauge was reading....

That might be the $64 question to whether the fuel was water, (no viable recovery method at 1800' (120 seconds)  or the tank draw briefly starved (due to a manouver) or there was a fuel blockage. 

putting that aside, coul dhave been another fault. Carb fault ?  But M-S carbs are pretty simple.

Wonder how long it was since she practiced a full CFMOST full troubleshooting proceedure. 

(IE initial check (gauges, carb heat, pumps on, change tanks) , plan, pax brief, comprehensive check  (include check is primer locked ? try different things, throttle position that works ? , bad mag ?, primer normal ? try different mixtures) . 

 

 

[kgwilson]

Whatever else she did or forgot to do I don't know but she did pull off a textbook ditching.

[rgmwa]

Interesting interview. Good to hear the details of what happened. If I’m ever in the same situation I hope I do as well as she did.

[Blueadventures]

ATSB report out now; missed selecting fuel tank that contained fuel and a contributing factor was not recording fuel usage and tank contents. Bugger when it happens.

[kgwilson]

I had a ritual and I wrote on my flight log "Change tanks every 1/2 hour" and yellow highlighted it & I put the time in when I did it. It didn't have to be that often but that was just a personal thing & kept the weight balanced as well. Always worked for me.

[turboplanner]

9 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

ATSB report out now; missed selecting fuel tank that contained fuel and a contributing factor was not recording fuel usage and tank contents. Bugger when it happens.

Human Factors, and she was an accepted  skilled pilot.

 

I had an engine stop during taxy once after I ritually turned the tap a quarter during startup checks. The previous student had forgotten to turn the fuel off on shutdown. That taught me to "identify". I've also caught myself touching gauges to "confirm" but with no recollection of the gauge reading. Pays to just assess yourself now and then.

 

If you radio in a mid flight emergency, you'll be asked what your endurance is and you are supposed to answer back in minutes.

If you do fuel checks every 10 minutes  and keep a record of fuel burn for each tank, perhaps you'd be less likely to switch to an empty tank.

[KRviator]

9 hours ago, kgwilson said:

I had a ritual and I wrote on my flight log "Change tanks every 1/2 hour" and yellow highlighted it & I put the time in when I did it. It didn't have to be that often but that was just a personal thing & kept the weight balanced as well. Always worked for me.

As I posted over in 'Prune, I takeoff and climb on one tank, swap to the other and run that tank dry, and only then do I change back to my original tank. Two tank changes total for any long-range flight. Lateral trim isn't a huge issue with the -9 compared to other aircraft. This way, I know I have used every drop of fuel out of that tank, I'm not fluffing about or forgetting to change at the 30 minute mark, and every remaining drop of usable fuel is in one tank come landing.

[RFguy]

maybe too much A to B flying and not enough EP (emergency proceedure) practice.

Edited November 28, 2023 by RFguy

[facthunter]

Have a fuel system you can't get air into until ALL tanks are empty. It's not hard to design. Otherwise be fuel aware and run a  tank to dry in a suitable part of the flight. There's no point in having a small amount in a few tanks. Know your fuel selector without guessing.  Keep a flight log. . Know your endurance at any point in  time .  Nev

[RFguy]

Are there more fuel selection  mishaps at night ? 

 

 

[facthunter]

 At night especially about 3 am you are not at your best  because of your circadian rhythm  till the adrenaline kicks in. Also it's harder to see things in the cockpit at night so you have to know where they are.  Nev

[IBob]

Surely, in light singles and microlights, a small receiver tank with level switch in the top is an excellent innovation?
In the Zenith 701 and and the Savannah this is a 6L tank, kept flooded by the main tanks.

At cruise with a 912, the low level alarm comes on 150secs after the main tank/s stop delivering, leaving the pilot with approx 20minutes of fuel to sort out the problem or find a suitable landing spot.
It seems to me this addresses all sorts of scenarios, including momentary unporting, which have brought other aircraft down.

[facthunter]

They used to call them gascolators I think. . 20 minutes is better than nothing and you'll have all of it available. Can't beat having what you need though (with the required reserve).  Nev

[spacesailor]

What's the point of that " reserve " if , your going down , I  think, ' pull the choke on ' & burn off 

that wasted fuel . So it doesn't pollute the crash site .or catch fire .

spacesailor

[Marty_d]

The point of the reserve is so you don't go down.

[spacesailor]

When your engine has quit ,You are going down .  ( a glider Is different ) .

So throw out All excess weight , the less mass hitting anything the better. 

Including fuel . That fuel weight is significant ' mass ' .

spacesailor

[Marty_d]

But the reason the engine quit was lack of fuel. With a 20min reserve that both tanks feed into you get a flashing light on the panel if there's air at the top.

So you've got 20 minutes to find somewhere to land with the engine going.