Omega engine

[Area-51]

Back in late 90's i met an old steam engineer; during our afternoon discussion he told me of a friend of his who converted an XP falcon to run on steam; it cold go from stone cold to driving in 15 seconds; it had a closed loop system... the oil companies tried to buy his IP to which he told them all to go get stuffed... i was told the guys name but never chased it up at the time.

[turboplanner]

6 hours ago, Area-51 said:

Back in late 90's i met an old steam engineer; during our afternoon discussion he told me of a friend of his who converted an XP falcon to run on steam; it cold go from stone cold to driving in 15 seconds; it had a closed loop system... the oil companies tried to buy his IP to which he told them all to go get stuffed... i was told the guys name but never chased it up at the time.

That's a very similar story to hundreds of stories about the person who invented the petrolless engine, water fuelled engine, steam engine, pistonless engine, etc. which never came onto the market because, ususally, Big Oil, or Henry Ford took/bought their patents or bought them out and never used them or bought the prototype then cut it up.

 

Successful steam engines, and there were many, relied heavily on an unlimited supply of heating material such as wood, and an unlimited supply of water which went through the engine as steam. Trains became successful because they could carry enough coal to make the distance, and their regular stops to take on water were covered by building cafes for the passengers to tale a break.

 

Howard Hughes decided to build a steam powered car and the engineers solved the water consumption cycle by inventing a re-circulatin condenser which had to be huge so they maximised to cooling surface by building it into the body skin. The car met the targets for operation, range etc. but when Howard Hughes drove it, he asked what would happen if the car had an accident and the steam condenser burst. On being told the occupants would be killed he cancelled the project and had the car cut up.

 

The steam car I heard about was an EH Holden in Melbourne.

 

 

[bushcaddy105]

14 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Harold Clisby?

No. I can't remember his name. He ran a small business rebuilding gearboxes and engines for speedway cars both for his own cars and for clients. He was on Churchill Rd. Kilburn, opposite the then SA Railways workshops.

[facthunter]

A Clisby  from SA built air compressors and hot bits for Clisby Bantams (BSA's) AND probably a lot of other similar stuff.  Nev

[turboplanner]

20 minutes ago, bushcaddy105 said:

No. I can't remember his name. He ran a small business rebuilding gearboxes and engines for speedway cars both for his own cars and for clients. He was on Churchill Rd. Kilburn, opposite the then SA Railways workshops.

Almost certainly Harold, right location anyway.

Had bad breath, but a genius. I was a starry eyed draftsman designing electric and ICE fork lift trucks. I asked for a job, but he said the business wasn't big enough (he and the machinists were probably working off verbal or sketches.) The speedway connection makes sense; there were Holden Speedcars running at Rowley Park that sounded like someone tearing calico, and I've never heard anything as good as that since. Kym Bonython ran speedway at a level I've also never seen since with all the drivers and crews dressed in their matching silk suits, and all competitors required to show up on time every Friday Night, so you needed a red hot mechanic or you had to be one. Some of the bike guys used to design and build their own engines starting with the sand castings.

 

https://adelaideaz.com/articles/harold-clisby-formula-one-engine-only-part-of-projects-taken-on-by-adelaide-s-wildly-eccentric-yet-immensely-talented-self-taught-engineer

 

Sorry, the story seems to peter out but ifanyone's  interested in Harold, there's plent more on the internet.

[bushcaddy105]

59 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Almost certainly Harold, right location anyway.

No, certainly NOT Harold Clisby. I knew Harold back in the 70's when his primary business was manufacturing air compressors which to this day have a very good reputation. Harold was by then a very successful businessman who dabbled in many hobby interests as well - his small scale steam locomotives being one notable passion. He built an extensive track network at his Teringie Heights estate. The chap to whom I refer was the opposite - a battler who worked from a small shed at the back of a run-down house, surrounded by scree-slope piles of engine and gearbox pieces. His passion was his speedway cars, not his business! I did attend Rowley Park on several occasions, and coincidentally my son"s wife's father used to race there.

[turboplanner]

47 minutes ago, bushcaddy105 said:

No, certainly NOT Harold Clisby. I knew Harold back in the 70's when his primary business was manufacturing air compressors which to this day have a very good reputation. Harold was by then a very successful businessman who dabbled in many hobby interests as well - his small scale steam locomotives being one notable passion. He built an extensive track network at his Teringie Heights estate. The chap to whom I refer was the opposite - a battler who worked from a small shed at the back of a run-down house, surrounded by scree-slope piles of engine and gearbox pieces. His passion was his speedway cars, not his business! I did attend Rowley Park on several occasions, and coincidentally my son"s wife's father used to race there.

Yes, different person. I tried searching for Speedway Engine Buiders but didn't have any luck - all the current ones are there but no history.

 

[BrendAn]

5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

That's a very similar story to hundreds of stories about the person who invented the petrolless engine, water fuelled engine, steam engine, pistonless engine, etc. which never came onto the market because, ususally, Big Oil, or Henry Ford took/bought their patents or bought them out and never used them or bought the prototype then cut it up.

 

Successful steam engines, and there were many, relied heavily on an unlimited supply of heating material such as wood, and an unlimited supply of water which went through the engine as steam. Trains became successful because they could carry enough coal to make the distance, and their regular stops to take on water were covered by building cafes for the passengers to tale a break.

 

Howard Hughes decided to build a steam powered car and the engineers solved the water consumption cycle by inventing a re-circulatin condenser which had to be huge so they maximised to cooling surface by building it into the body skin. The car met the targets for operation, range etc. but when Howard Hughes drove it, he asked what would happen if the car had an accident and the steam condenser burst. On being told the occupants would be killed he cancelled the project and had the car cut up.

 

The steam car I heard about was an EH Holden in Melbourne.

 

 

The Pritchard steam turbine was well known in Melbourne. Late seventies. He had it in an xb falcon. Was on the news a bit and he took it to America and GM tested it over a few days with no breakdowns. 

[BrendAn]

5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

That's a very similar story to hundreds of stories about the person who invented the petrolless engine, water fuelled engine, steam engine, pistonless engine, etc. which never came onto the market because, ususally, Big Oil, or Henry Ford took/bought their patents or bought them out and never used them or bought the prototype then cut it up.

 

Successful steam engines, and there were many, relied heavily on an unlimited supply of heating material such as wood, and an unlimited supply of water which went through the engine as steam. Trains became successful because they could carry enough coal to make the distance, and their regular stops to take on water were covered by building cafes for the passengers to tale a break.

 

Howard Hughes decided to build a steam powered car and the engineers solved the water consumption cycle by inventing a re-circulatin condenser which had to be huge so they maximised to cooling surface by building it into the body skin. The car met the targets for operation, range etc. but when Howard Hughes drove it, he asked what would happen if the car had an accident and the steam condenser burst. On being told the occupants would be killed he cancelled the project and had the car cut up.

 

The steam car I heard about was an EH Holden in Melbourne.

 

Dobel and Stanley were very successful long before Howard Hughes I would have thought.

And don't forget the naptha fully sealed steam engines. Closed circuit heated and pressurised petrol never really took on .  Although some buses were trialled in Texas and worked well. There was a lot of concern about safety though.

[turboplanner]

I was searching to see if Harold Clisby had built his own engine, and came across this genealogy biography from the family site. The answer was several engines, but the story is staggering with him getting involved in an amazing amount of new designs and fixes including aircrtaft - gobsmacking in fact; an amazing man.    The link I provided before was just a page or two from what is almost a book   https://www.clisby.com/hwc.html

 

[onetrack]

The blokes name was Ted Pritchard.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by onetrack

[Methusala]

Oil was $US14-15/bbl...HaHaHa!

[onetrack]

The whole story below, on Ted Pritchard. A bloke who could have been a billionaire, if only someone with serious money had financed him.

 

There have been plenty of people like him, whose ideas withered on the vine, because they didn't have a bank and unlimited funding behind them - unlike Clessie Cummins.

 

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/the-australian-designed-car-built-to-steamroll-the-establishment/

[turboplanner]

44 minutes ago, onetrack said:

The whole story below, on Ted Pritchard. A bloke who could have been a billionaire, if only someone with serious money had financed him.

 

There have been plenty of people like him, whose ideas withered on the vine, because they didn't have a bank and unlimited funding behind them - unlike Clessie Cummins.

 

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/the-australian-designed-car-built-to-steamroll-the-establishment/

When a manufacturer does the analysis for a new model, the analysis teams get down to the window actuator performance, colour, shape, size cost an perceived value by the customer. Customer teams are formed and quite often rate the car quite differently, so then the company has to decide which of those so take the customer advice and which to take the team advice and see if the end cost is saleable or not. Then they commit to the basic platform for 10 or 12 years. I’m in complete awe of those guys making that decision, because the unknowns are the customer reaction, government changes over the next decade and complete disruption such as emissions and fuel crisis etc.  Then along comes someone who’s built a completely new concept. In this case there’s vague information in fuel consumption but I didn’t see the water reloading intervals or the performance analysis we expect to see with an engine upgrade etc. so it doesn’t surprise me that the concept never made it to production.

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

The whole story below, on Ted Pritchard. A bloke who could have been a billionaire, if only someone with serious money had financed him.

 

There have been plenty of people like him, whose ideas withered on the vine, because they didn't have a bank and unlimited funding behind them - unlike Clessie Cummins.

 

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/the-australian-designed-car-built-to-steamroll-the-establishment/

I am sure he had a steam powered xb I remember it on the tv. No mention of it here though.

[BrendAn]

The  steam powered plane was a ripper

 

[Area-51]

4 hours ago, BrendAn said:

The  steam powered plane was a ripper

 

Now we're talking! 😂😂; back onto steam powered omnibuses; they used a big onboard vat of molten aluminium that would remain in liquid state long enough to last for a whole shift... they were heavy... a golf ball size plutonium nuclear reactor surrounded by mercury coolant pumped through a thermal heat exchanger to a steam turbine is guaranteed to get people talking for decades 😀... personally i'm staying with the donkey 

[turboplanner]

4 hours ago, BrendAn said:

The  steam powered plane was a ripper

 

My great uncle was killed by a steam engine, or more precisely a boiler while he was talking to a saw mill owner; he was blowing clear across an adjoining road and landed in a paddock.

The saw miller had replaced the lead safety plug with a steel one and was stoking more wood on to turn the saws faster.

 

There's enough drama just getting a Basic Class 2 licence and I can just imagine the squeals when people find out they need a High Risk Licence, which costs several hundred dollars and takes weeks of TAFE to operate steam equipment.

 

[BrendAn]

16 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

My great uncle was killed by a steam engine, or more precisely a boiler while he was talking to a saw mill owner; he was blowing clear across an adjoining road and landed in a paddock.

The saw miller had replaced the lead safety plug with a steel one and was stoking more wood on to turn the saws faster.

 

There's enough drama just getting a Basic Class 2 licence and I can just imagine the squeals when people find out they need a High Risk Licence, which costs several hundred dollars and takes weeks of TAFE to operate steam equipment.

 

turbo i am only posting something interesting not suggesting we build steam powered cars and aircraft. 

your great uncles accident was not an uncommon occurrence . thats why they had boiler tickets.

[Area-51]

Cricky... its hard enough just getting a worksafe certificate that says you are adequately trained to open and close a commercial fridge let alone open steam valve... Maybe my barista license will be recognised as a steam valve operator 🤔

[onetrack]

Steam boilers have killed thousands of people since they were first invented. The worst Maritime disaster that America has ever endured, was the explosion of the boilers on the sidewheeler steamboat, Sultana, in 1865. A reported 1,169 people died in the Sultana disaster.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boiler_explosions

 

I STR a figure of around a total of 18,000 Americans alone were killed in railway boiler explosions, from the early 1800's to the mid-1950's. Loco men got caught out regularly with low water levels, stopped-up sight gauges, faulty pressure gauges, faulty safety valves, and faulty boiler inspections.

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by onetrack

[danny_galaga]

On 01/05/2023 at 12:08 AM, Area-51 said:

Back in late 90's i met an old steam engineer; during our afternoon discussion he told me of a friend of his who converted an XP falcon to run on steam; it cold go from stone cold to driving in 15 seconds; it had a closed loop system... the oil companies tried to buy his IP to which he told them all to go get stuffed... i was told the guys name but never chased it up at the time.

I don't doubt it, but I reckon he embellished the story with the ol 'the oil companies tried to shut me down' routine. For one, you can run steam engines with petroleum products. But also, why put all the trouble into inventing something just to sit on it and not make any money from it? If you aren't going to do anything with it anyway, sell it to the big mean old oil companies. You weren't going to do anything with it, they aren't either. But now you are richer 😎

[BrendAn]

5 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

I don't doubt it, but I reckon he embellished the story with the ol 'the oil companies tried to shut me down' routine. For one, you can run steam engines with petroleum products. But also, why put all the trouble into inventing something just to sit on it and not make any money from it? If you aren't going to do anything with it anyway, sell it to the big mean old oil companies. You weren't going to do anything with it, they aren't either. But now you are richer 😎

I agree, at least he would have made good money out of it.

It's like people around jumping up and down about farmers selling to the Chinese. If I was a farmer I wouldn't care who they were if the offer was 2 or 3 times what I would have got for it normally.

 

[facthunter]

Anyhow I utterly reject the "NEGATIVITY" badge. I've been looking at new approaches to these matters all my life and running some new Process and claiming  a breakthrough prematurely has been going on since the beginning . Poppet valves being pretty much universal is not  "head in the sand stuff "It's how matters have turned out in Practice. When Sarich's Orbital engine was being considered and Both GM and BHP and John Button were for it, I believed it would not be successful after examining it in considerable DETAIL. and publicly said so.  Well It WASN'T and the Sarich people then Called it" Orbital Engine Technology and applied it to a conventional engine and a lot  of people lost their Money  Nev

[danny_galaga]

2 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

I agree, at least he would have made good money out of it.

It's like people around jumping up and down about farmers selling to the Chinese. If I was a farmer I wouldn't care who they were if the offer was 2 or 3 times what I would have got for it normally.

 

Yes. It's a bug bear of mine when people complain about selling to foreign investors. Australia is rich per capita, but we only have so much money to go around. If a farm or factory is in trouble, should we just compel them to go bankrupt and just abandon the site? It's silly thinking.