Big birds and the BRS debate.

[kgwilson]

My car which I bought new in 2012 has 7 airbags. I knew there were a few but had to look it up. That hasn't changed my driving habits. What has changed them is age. I don't drive as fast anymore and am far more careful when approaching intersections and other traffic. As far as BRS & birds are concerned, again I'll take my chances that the aircraft will still be flyable after the aluminium has been badly dented. Unless there is a major structural failure a BRS is a waste of space, weight and time. I'd rather be able to glide and fly as far in to the crash as possible.

 

We have a few resident Wedgies at South Grafton. I encountered one on base the other day. I zigged & he zagged. I have encountered a few in cruise at several thousand feet & a tiny speck becomes a big object really fast. Their eyesight is extrememely good & when they see me coming they always roll over and dive away quite fast while I usually pull a pretty tight turn to the left generally.

 

There is always a risk that one day I might hit one but then that's aviation. There are risks in everything. You just manage them as best you can.

[facthunter]

You'd be worse of in a wood and fabric plane. Lube oil will ignite on a hot surface better than petrol , ( a proven fact) as it will stay there longer whereas fuel will surround the place with a rich mixture too rich to ignite at that site..  IN Flight Fire is probably your worst possible situation. and the reaction to it is get ON THE ground QUICKLY AS SAFELY AS YOU CAN. IF it can't be controlled. Commercial planes have two attempts  at firing extinguisher and extensive fire warning systems and firewall shut off valves for fuel and oil. Nev

Edited May 19, 2023 by facthunter
spelling

[facthunter]

Birds are definitely a risk to Aeroplanes. moreso the smaller planes Most windscreens won't stop a bird. I'd definitely try hard to dodge things like Pelicans. Nev

[Garfly]

Yeah, you've gotta hope they don't decide to zig just as you do. Or that the wedgie hasn't got you in its sights - the rival who must be repelled.

It was a miracle that Mike Greenwood (story previous page) survived his encounter. Good on him for not giving up. What an epic struggle!

He didn't know at the time that, in fact, he had no serious structural damage. But his (temporary) loss of all vision must have seemed just as bad at the time.

Everyone (who has the option) has to balance out the airframe parachute pros and cons for themselves. 

And for some it might be the fear of birds that tips the scales.   

 

[Old Koreelah]

The prevailing assumption seems to be that as they notice your plane approach, birds drop to avoid you.

If you can, make sure your screen is polycarb, or some material of similar impact resistance.

Years ago an F-111 was lost near Guyra due to bird strike on the screen. What material is it?

[Garfly]

46 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said:

The prevailing assumption seems to be that as they notice your plane approach, birds drop to avoid you.

If you can, make sure your screen is polycarb, or some material of similar impact resistance.

 

Yes, I suppose it's a fight or flight thing.  And many territorial raptors seem ready for the fight even against way bigger intruders.

 

My guess, going frame by frame in this video (around 01:45) is that it's some kind of hawk on a frontal attack intercept (talons first).

In any case, impact resistant eyewear for pilots might be the go.

 

 

 

 

It looks like the mode you often see in drone/RC attacks.

 

 

or against paragliders:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGzzSIZvA40

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Garfly

[Carbon Canary]

An open question……

 

What would your passenger do if you as pilot had a ‘medical episode’ and became incapacitated……and do you include anything about that possibility in your pre-takeoff brief?

[Garfly]

20 minutes ago, Carbon Canary said:

An open question……

 

What would your passenger do if you as pilot had a ‘medical episode’ and became incapacitated……and do you include anything about that possibility in your pre-takeoff brief?

 

Yes, given recreational aviation's demographics, that's probably important for many of us.  For me it'd include:  Try to get straight and level, steer away from immediate hazards; As needed use the radio (like this); and when ready, the BRS parachute - first step: these ignition switches OFF,  hold her straight then pull red handle - hard, then operate the PLB (like this). Also, use the Emergency app on your phone to call in your lat long (or What3words) position.  BTW my own phone's access code is XXXX.

[facthunter]

That should fix the passenger problem . They'd be out the door. . My wife had no desire to get a pilot's licence but I'd have her hold the controls on each take off and landing which should help if I was incapacitated.  I was always instructor rated if that helps the legality of  it..  but why not.  You're using another resource that can be available.  Nev

[Garfly]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

That should fix the passenger problem . They'd be out the door. 

Yeah, they might be.  But any pax aboard a non-certified with a senior(for)captain does well to be a bit more prepared and capable than otherwise. Even RPTs have extra briefings for Exit Row pax which could frighten the faint hearted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Garfly

[facthunter]

They refer to a card in the back of the seat and there's never a thought about having to control the plane. It's only about exiting safely. That's done on your Passenger endorsement for U/L's too. Nev

[Garfly]

Yeah,  I also have a small placard in front of the pax seat with very simple reminders of the 2 step chute procedure. 

Red switches OFF. Red handle PULL.

But I'd also make sure they know how to call for help and certainly how to operate the PLB.

And, yes, I'd expect them to be able to keep the blue side up until they're ready to pull.

[facthunter]

I think there's a big liability risk taking Pax other than say SWMBO or students. Unfortunately in U/L's.   Nev

[Carbon Canary]

If you had autopilot as well as BRS, would you add anything to the pre-brief, or keep it the same (KISS) ?

[Garfly]

Unfortunately, I've never had cause to think that one through.

Do you have both an AP and BRS, CC? 

What are your current strategies?

 

 

[RFguy]

Press autoland.

 

[Garfly]

And, just to be sure, the BRS as well.  ;- )

[RFguy]

I dont feel I am at the age where I am likely to be incapacitated (52). well of course I wouldnt, so the only one that keeps me awake, and consider a chute,  is an in circuit collision.  Should be possible with a couple of 360 x 100 deg cameras to see this coming.  

[Garfly]

You're young enough to wait for universal ADSB to become a thing.   ;- )

 

BTW, how's that anti-collision app of yours coming along?

 

 

[Garfly]

Meanwhile, back at birds, it's a lot of fun when our fellow flyers are friends not foes:

 

 

[RFguy]

Hi. My  collision detector works fine. (IE predict trajectories from ADSB data ).
But what to do with the data and information.  Simplist is like  "HAZARD TRAFFIC 3 o clock high 10 seconds" (fast) voice annunciator.

As I have now started flying again regularly, I will likely push this along with extreme prejudice. especially with the zillions of other cherokees in circuit at YCWR (flight school) and the occassional guy with no radio and counter traffic-in-circuit approaches......

Ideally, I'd have a planatarium feel to it. IE airplanes are projected around you, OR a transparent sphere is in front of you, with airplanes projected onto the surface of the sphere, with one's airplane plastic model in the middle.  IE Hhow to generate / communicate the 3d information

[Student Pilot]

12 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

The prevailing assumption seems to be that as they notice your plane approach, birds drop to avoid you.

If you can, make sure your screen is polycarb, or some material of similar impact resistance.

Years ago an F-111 was lost near Guyra due to bird strike on the screen. What material is it?

The first one just south east of Guyra might have been a bird strike, it wasn't advertised as that at the time. They ejected intact in the escape capsule. The second one to the west went in almost vertical during a practice attack with the loss of both crew.

[sfGnome]

4 hours ago, RFguy said:

.Should be possible with a couple of 360 x 100 deg cameras to see this coming.  

I have thought about this so many times (though never enough to actually do anything about it). 360 deg cameras mounted above and below, with video interpretation by computer that is looking for anything moving against the fixed background. Yes, the background is moving, but it is (relatively) easy for the computer to correlate the image from one frame to the next so that any variation is obvious (to the computer). The point of this is to be alerted to the non-ADSB, non-radio (or choose to non-broadcast) aircraft in circuit, or (as has happened to me) the very rare coincidence of flight paths in the wide blue yonder. 
 

I should note that obviously an aircraft on exact collision course will not move against the background, but it will at least increase in size. If that is enough to give enough warning, I don’t know - I guess that depends on the camera resolution - but it’s still an intriguing thought project to play with in the wee small hours when sleep alludes me. 🙄

[Carbon Canary]

4 hours ago, Garfly said:

Unfortunately, I've never had cause to think that one through.

Do you have both an AP and BRS, CC? 

What are your current strategies?

 

 

I will have. Still another 6 month wait for my new ship to arrive.

 

I haven’t thought it through, but would probably advise to kill the engine and pull the chute, unless the pax had more than a little familiarity with the aircraft.

 

The intention is my most common pax will be my wife, and she will be briefed and trained on possible scenarios, but ultimately the safest is to simply pull the chute.

[Old Koreelah]

20 hours ago, RFguy said:

…the only one that keeps me awake, and consider a chute,  is an in circuit collision.  Should be possible with a couple of 360 x 100 deg cameras to see this coming.  

Who is fast enough to look out the window, monitor instruments and watch those screens?