Mount Isa Wheels up Landing Incident VH-TWV 14-May 2023

[old man emu]

10 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

One of the problems with TB20s is that the gear undercarriage horn is almost, if not identical to the stall warner.

I would say that such a situation is a serious design fault. If I was in America, I'd be suing the carp out of the manufacturer for negligence in design.

[facthunter]

Most Pilots would not know what the gear warning horn sounded like. Nev

[Geoff_H]

What I needed when Landing my J Mooney was the gear down to get the speed washed off enough.  I would do a short steep climb on entering downwind and when below gear down max speed, lower the gear then correct the altitude.  The gear warning sound must not have sounded.

[facthunter]

Maybe having the higher speed doesn't bring it on.  or you'd get it any time you pulled power in flight.   Nev

[Geoff_H]

I think that you are right Mooneys glide so well that the velocities come quite high on decent, so high that you can freeze the engine.  Just read about it happening....Geoff

[Bosi72]

The POH says the warning horn is activated if gears are not down and locked and throttle is 1/4 from idle.

But your Mooney might be a different version. The best is to test and confirm in training area.

[Ando]

On 17/5/2023 at 11:00 AM, facthunter said:

Too late to go around is when the prop has been reshaped

Wouldn’t Prop be reshaped to Fine anyway as apart of final approach. Guess if you missed both checks prop and Gear it would be time to reconsider things.

 

[kgwilson]

Well it must be the season. We had a Wheels up landing in a 66 or 68 Mooney at South Grafton today. The owner had just had it signed off after spending months restoring it after it was written off in the Floods of Feb/March last year. He bought it back off the Insurance company. I have not spoken to him yet but apparently he had a partial engine failure on downwind and decided to land long to make sure of missing houses/trees on the 26 approach & was pre occupied with getting down safely & forgot the wheels. He has about 800 hours on that aircraft.

[Old Koreelah]

Bugger! I guess wheels up reduces the chances of over-running the strip…

[old man emu]

Them M20's are as slick a goose shit. Used to be navigator on one out of Dubbo in my youth. 

[ClintonB]

My instructor told me a story of a former student in QLD buying one and wanting to be checked out in it, he was warned about performance and being a bit of a cowboy, put them in a spin they barely recovered from. He told me that was last time he flew with that guy, due to his inability to listen to experienced advice.

[facthunter]

 Ando I meant "reshaped" meaning having contacted the runway. Pitch to fine is normal procedure on approach. All this fuss about the ship (Mooney M20) being super slippery. It's not a lot different to a Cessna 210 which is another retract.  plane many fail to keep ahead of.  Nev

[Ando]

Thanks Nev I’ve got you.

[Geoff_H]

Al Mooney was an aeronautical engineer during WWII.  It is said that he designed the wings based on Mustang wings.  They are laminar that makes climbing slower and descent quicker.  I have heard of C210 vs M20J "races" the C210 beats the M20J in climb but the M20J surely beats the C210 in descent.  I have had a descent fast enough to chill the engine, even with cooling cowls closed.   With 2/3 the power of the C210 the Mooney does pretty well.  

[Thruster88]

Mooney's are fast for their 180 or 200hp engines. An RV with the same engine is significantly faster, back seat, who needs that. Lancair 360 with 180hp even faster. The fixed gear RV is hard to beat. Van's total performance.  

[Geoff_H]

Sure if 2 seats is all that you want.

[facthunter]

The average Mooney is a TAD underpowered. The later ones addressed that. Commanche's have a laminar flow wing also. Don't try to hold any of them OFF too long in the landing flare. You land a little flatter as they have a "sharper " stall. CLEAN planes need to commence descent earlier or you are not exploiting it's efficiency. Cold engine descents cause piston ring surface BARRELLING.  AVOID them. Nev

Edited May 20, 2023 by facthunter