Hangar space around Sydney

[skippydiesel]

16 hours ago, spacesailor said:

There Was talk years ago of building a large hanger .

I saw some frames in the rough grass there .

spacesailor

Yeah! to both

[skippydiesel]

11 hours ago, onetrack said:

Sydney weather is at its worst in the Summer months, and this is when Sydney gets the most rain, as well as hail and storms. Sydney can get some extremely violent weather.

Oooh! sounds alarming.

Almost any location in Australia can experience extreme weather conditions. I don't think Sydney Basin is alone in this.

While they may differ in type, I suspect that Switzerland has its own weather related problems

55 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Salt can be an issue here too. It drifts for miles inland from surf beaches and plenty of inland irrigated areas annd salt lakes are more salty than a beach. Nev

Our predominet wind is from the SW (would need to be an easterly to get a sea breeze).

The Oaks is 60 minutes, on a good road (most of the time) form the the nearest coast (Woolongong area).

Its factual correct that wind can carry all sorts of materials a very long way BUT highly unlikely to have any practical implications for this location. 

[facthunter]

Yes , that should be far enough away. 30 Miles is enough.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

15 hours ago, Chris_LSZO said:

:)) 

No, I'm quite familiar with the weather conditions 🙂

I'm worried only about hail, strong rain and sun. This would ages the aircraft quite fast...

 

Chris

You are not alone in your concerns Chris.

The largest type number at The Oaks are Jabiru's - probably about half, have light weight shelters, of varying designs, over them. Many have spent all their operational life in the open and show little impact from many years of exposure to the weather.

The likelihood of your aircraft showing any ill effects, from a temporary parking in the open is negligible. If you are still  concerned get a quote from a custom cover maker eg https://www.punkinheadair.com.au/

My air craft is all metal, so I live in a state of weather anxiety, that will hopefully soon be alleviated by the erection of a light weight weather protector.

[spacesailor]

Cheapest ' lightweight ' shelter is undoubtedly,  a " wedding cabana " , or a pair of cheaper standard cabanas. 

Perhaps  , you could put three together.  Two over the wings plus one for the tail area .

Light enough to lift off your air raft when  needed. Good anchored tiedowns essential. 

A 12X6 is less than a $ 1,000. Amozen of course. 

spacesailor

[facthunter]

OUR sun does damage to many surfaces. The plane also gets too hot under many types of cover. They need hangaring, really.  Nev

[old man emu]

13 hours ago, onetrack said:

Sydney weather is at its worst in the Summer months,

I think that when discussing the weather of a particular locality, it is best the heed the words of those who actually live (lived) there. Skippy lives within 5 kms of The Oaks, and I lived and worked for thirty years within 15 kms of it.

 

Unless there is a Low Pressure cell in the Tasman Sea south of Wollongong, the prevailing winds are from the southwest in the morning, with the nor'easter arriving about 3:00 pm. If there are thunderstorms, they tend to split into two before reaching The Oaks. One side drifts down the Nepean River to Penrith, and the other down the Georges River to Bankstown. The storms that you hear of doing a lot of damage are the ones that go down the Nepean and link up with the ones coming over from Katoomba.  As a result, that southwestern rim of the Sydney Basin is pretty much in a rain shadow. The rain coming from a more easterly direction off the coast usually stops at the Georges River, roughly in a line from Bankstown Airport to Wedderburn. So it doesn't get to The Oaks.

 

Solar radiation is going to be a problem anywhere. 

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

Its factual correct that wind can carry all sorts of materials a very long way BUT highly unlikely to have any practical implications for this location. 

The biggest problem from airborne material at The Oaks is the pollution from the areas of Sydney to the northeast of the airport. There is a natural air circulation pattern that brings pollutants to The Oaks.

 

Look at this:

 

Air Pollution in Sydney Basin

WWW.CONDELLPARK.COM

---

Sydney Basin Pollution Sources and Health Effects

 

[facthunter]

I forgot to include Industrial pollution like SO2.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

Cheapest ' lightweight ' shelter is undoubtedly,  a " wedding cabana " , or a pair of cheaper standard cabanas. 

Perhaps  , you could put three together.  Two over the wings plus one for the tail area .

Light enough to lift off your air raft when  needed. Good anchored tiedowns essential. 

A 12X6 is less than a $ 1,000. Amozen of course. 

spacesailor

Sort of checked this idea out (under the name Hocker) - turns out the aint so cheap and the  few if any have wide enough unsupported spans.

 

I am exploring two options :

 

• Disused chook shed - usually very wide unsupported, span (12m?) only need 3-4 frames - light weight and likely to be nil to low cost.
• Disused polly tunnel - not common but do come in about 10m span - again would only need  3-4 frames - may have significant (?) cost.

 

Both light weight , easy to dismantle for transport  & erect - hopefully minimal modification required.

 

If I find a suitable structure, happy to  tell all.

Edited June 2, 2023 by skippydiesel

[facthunter]

IF winds can make it collapse  you would be better with nothing. The wide door opening is the weakness.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

36 minutes ago, old man emu said:

The biggest problem from airborne material at The Oaks is the pollution from the areas of Sydney to the northeast of the airport. There is a natural air circulation pattern that brings pollutants to The Oaks.

 

Look at this:

 

Air Pollution in Sydney Basin

WWW.CONDELLPARK.COM

---

Sydney Basin Pollution Sources and Health Effects

 

OME whats with the climate downer on The Oaks?

 

We rarely get the pollution from Sydney. Sure it swirls around Campbelltown, even Narellan & Camden on occasion, but we are usually above (altitude) such concerns.

 

As stated earlier our prevailing wind is from the SW  - Sydney for those who dont know is NNE of The Oaks. The Oaks is 900ft ASL, not far down /distant from the "lip" of Sydney Basin.  I concede ,it does happen, on a rare day, The Oaks gets a little of the smog.

[johnm]

your insurance company will / might take a dim (almost murky, gloomy bordering on dark) view of any non engineered structure ?

1. causing damage to you aircraft and particularly surrounding damage to other property

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, johnm said:

your insurance company will / might take a dim (almost murky, gloomy bordering on dark) view of any non engineered structure ?

1. causing damage to you aircraft and particularly surrounding damage to other property

Wow! While I appreciate the caution tone, I would assume that every effort would be made to secure any structure,  as per the many already at The Oaks, that for the most part have stood the test of time (inc hurricane force micro busrts)

[spacesailor]

The frame of ' cabanas ' can withstand lots more wind than the canopy !. Which of course can be jettisoned,  by using weak ties onto said frame .

The frame Needs substantial lashings & tie-downs , to keep it were it is supposed to Stay .

spacesailor

 

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

OME whats with the climate downer on The Oaks?

Not a downer. That air circulation pattern is natural. It's only been with the growth of Sydney and suburbs to the south of the Parramatta River that nasty stuff has been brought into the northern part of the Wollondilly Shire. The residential development in the northeastern corner of the Camden Shire has introduced more pollution, mainly from private vehicles since there is inadequate public transport. 

 

That link I posted was to a site that was discussing the effects on air pollution possibly arising when Nancy Bird Walton Airport becomes operational.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

 

That link I posted was to a site that was discussing the effects on air pollution possibly arising when Nancy Bird Walton Airport becomes operational.

Ahhh! - future pollution. Yes indeed. I hope its speculative and doesn't come to pass (I might have to up sticks & move on to cleaner climbs.)

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

Ahhh! - future pollution.

Actually, although the air circulation pattern is a fact, I'm pretty sure that the facts were used by anti-airport campaigners to push a completely different agenda. I found that material years ago. In fact, if you look at the design of the website you will see that it is very early 21st Century DIY style.

[spacesailor]

I,very often noticed the clouds moving in a circular pattern over the city .

Could the rising heat , from the city,  be making the rising air revolve, like the " bath water " gurgling down the plug-hole .

spacesailor

[turboplanner]

There's nothing like asking a Meteorologist about weather patterns, particularly since many of them pass through several States rather than just originating and attacking your particular airstrip or neighbourhood.

 

Pollution from PM10 particulates drifts around 50 kms, and PM2.5 particulates drift Statewide, and there are sources all over each State, so we all get a lungfull.

 

The same goes for allowing an Engineer to do the computations on a structure. The Council usually insists on an Engineering analysis for any new structure over about 10 M2, and some Councils require engineering standards for fences, so they don't blow over.

 

But as we know not everyone complies with this, trying to save a few hundred dollars, structures are built and structures blow away.

 

Pretty much the same as building in flood zones.

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by turboplanner

[skippydiesel]

10 hours ago, spacesailor said:

................................................

Could the rising heat , from the city, ..........................

Flatulence!

[old man emu]

11 hours ago, spacesailor said:

I,very often noticed the clouds moving in a circular pattern over the city .

Could the rising heat , from the city,  be making the rising air revolve, like the " bath water " gurgling down the plug-hole .

spacesailor

The heat produced by urbanisation is one of the main contributors to micro-climate change in the Sydney Basin. Twenty years ago, most of the land west of the line of Cowpasture Road/Windsor Road was open space. Admittedly cleared of native forest in the 19th Century, but well grass covered. Since 2000 vat swaths of that land have been covered with roads and dwellings. In the main, those dwellings are of brick, and the style has been to have grey-coloured rooves, not the lighter terracotta of the older parts of Sydney. These materials act as heat banks, warming during the daytime and radiating heat at night. 

 

I used to slope-soar RC gliders off the southwest-facing hill near Camden back in the early 2000's. X marks the spot.

 

 

 

 

The winds would pass over cleared paddocks. Now look at what has happened to those paddocks. I reckon that on a warm day, a glider would rise like a homesick angel late for harp practice due to the heating of the air caused by those heat banks below.

 

The observation that the clouds were circulating could be explained as a type of willy-willy, but more extensive in area than we associate with a willy-willy. Both are the result of rapidly rising air. 

[trailer]

With the cost of hangarage so high in the metro areas could it be an option to build a hangar at a regional location and RPT or train or drive for a weekend of flying. Camp in the hangar?

[Chris_LSZO]

For me this wouldn't be a option...

 

Chris

[spacesailor]

Rylstone. !.

Over the hill would be too far as well .

Nice place to put your feet up in a live-in Hangar-Home. 

I Was looking at Bodangora airstrip at Wellington , 5 hours drive , but with relo's , there it could work .

spacesailor