Emergency Engine Start Devises

[onetrack]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Has anyone heard of one of these power packs self immolating?

I have never heard of any jump-start packs catching fire, but there have been phone power banks that started smouldering inside vehicles, and numerous lithium battery fires - generally from e-scooters, gophers and other Li-ion powered devices.

The fire authorities have reported a doubling in the number of house fires (to 59) in 2021-2022 in W.A., that were directly attributable to Lithium batteries catching fire. However, the majority of these events were where the battery was being charged, and an overcharge condition occurred, or an incorrect charger was being used.

It seems that Lithium batteries, even the Lithium-iron batteries, all pose an increased fire risk as compared to lead acid batteries. However, the Lithium-iron batteries will not spontaneously burst in flame, as the common consumer Li-ion batteries will do, the Lithium-iron batteries only smoulder.

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, RFguy said:

Skippy, do you REALLY need this?

IE the SIMULTANEOUS probability of flattening the battery  AND not having any vehicles nearby to jump start ?

You'd be MUCH better off putting an Anderson SB50 connector somewhere pluggable connected to the battery and make a jumper lead that is that connector to a set of jumper lead crocodle clips. 
For say a 5 meter length, you will need a copper size of 17mm2.  easy ! weight of total 10 meters of cable (5m run) will be 1.523kg. you can buy some 4 B&S 20mm2  high strand count battery cable around the place.

Have already done this (as per last aircraft). Anderson /battery can supply power to refuelling pump  and can be used for battery charging and jump starting.- "all good" as they say.

 

I plan to tour (as soon as my cooling issues have been completely resolved) - Thinking ahead  - What if I am in some remote location (no 12V power supply around)? and my start battery is weak, for some reason. I know, I will carry one of those new fangled emergency start devices (advertised as small/light weight/capable of multiple start attempts on a D8, will power your small 12V device and charge your phone, all while lighting your camp ground, strob/blinding every living thing for k's around and holding its charge for a couple of lifetimes 🙃).

 

Did my research (obviously inadequate) invested (there goes the supper!) in an iTECH 2000A from a reputable 😜 Australian ( WA is Australia?) company only to find the device is a dud! 

 

Am I unlucky - the only  iTECH 2000A amongst thousands to be a dud?  - or are they all duds? (including every other similar device?)

 

This is why I started this conversation - Do I "invest" in another highly recommended (by the Forum) device? Do I just hope that I don't find myself in such a predicament out beyond the Black Stump?

[Womble]

I have purchased a SJS 1500 kit last year to help through the cold starts down south here. Connected to Anderson plugs on the cowling. Worked well. Got us started a few times with no fuss.

[skippydiesel]

18 minutes ago, Womble said:

I have purchased a SJS 1500 kit last year to help through the cold starts down south here. Connected to Anderson plugs on the cowling. Worked well. Got us started a few times with no fuss.

At last someone confessing to have had experience with one of these edifices - Thanks Womble.

 

Googled it - looks & sounds like  "the goods" but then so did my iTECH 2000A .

 

Self Discharge: .2V/month. What does this mean in a practical sense?  I would have thought a % loss might be more meaningful. Surely it doesn't mean the battery will go for 60 months befog zero charge available or even that it will take 5 months to drop to 11V ????.

 

What does:  "600 Amp Peak Clamp Power /300 Amp Start Power"  mean in real life???

 

Etc. Etc

[Womble]

SJS seems to hold the cherge well. All those peak amps are over my head. Just know it makes the fan go.

[onetrack]

Quote

Did my research (obviously inadequate) invested (there goes the supper!) in an iTECH 2000A from a reputable 😜 Australian ( WA is Australia?) company only to find the device is a dud! 

 

Am I unlucky - the only  iTECH 2000A amongst thousands to be a dud?  - or are they all duds? (including every other similar device?)

iTechWorld have a fairly good reputation here locally, as a business - but the bottom line is, virtually all the products they're selling are sourced from Asia, and predominantly, China.

 

I always look up Product Review and try to gauge the potential of whether I'm looking at a dud or not. The problem is, many reviews on PR are overly-excited buyers who have just bought the product, and haven't even used it, for any length of time! PR do a fairly good job of removing excessively-favourable posts that are blatant product "boom-ups" - but you need to go through a few dozen reviews and read what's been written to get a "feel" for the product quality and reliability.

 

What I find interesting is that PR put up the numbers of the product that have been returned, or been advised of warranty claims. The percentage of iTech products that have had warranty claims and which have been returned, is not a small percentage by any means - so I'd have to say, Skippy, that you're not alone with your poor experience of the iTech jump-starter.

 

I'd have to opine you would get a similar return and warranty claim rate from virtually all the big retailers of these products - simply because virtually all the products come from China, and they're designed and manufactured as "consumer products".

 

https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/itechworld

 

 

[kgwilson]

Anderson plugs should be a standard addition to any amateur build. I had my plugs set for warm weather & woke up on Monday after Airventure in Parkes to a decent frost & the aircraft covered in Ice. The engine would not fire & the battery got too flat. The bloke in the tent next door had one of those lithium jump start battery packs with an anderson plug on it. Stlll wouldn't start till I closed the plug gaps but the little unit was used 3 times. Once warmed up my battery had recovered sufficiently to restart the engine.

 

I have never been tempted to buy one as I'd probably never use it but having the anderson plug with 2 alligator clips in the kit is enough. There are always people around with cars and jumper leads anyway.

Edited June 26, 2023 by kgwilson

[facthunter]

IF you put the jumper leads from another car which has it's engine running it will charge your battery as well. Even just leaving the two batteries connected in parallel will transfer charge. There is NO risk of spiking and overvolting this way. Nev

[danny_galaga]

They used one of those lithium jump start jobbies on the Tecnam at the flying school a few months ago. Worked well, but I couldn't say how flat the battery was.

[Old Koreelah]

6 hours ago, kgwilson said:

…I had my plugs set for warm weather…

Stlll wouldn't start till I closed the plug gaps..

KG did you need to change the gap on all plugs, or just one from each cylinder?

With two plugs in each head, it might be possible to have one set for summer and the other for winter.

[lee-wave]

AGM batteries need a minimum of 14.5volts to charge to a 100%. Ordinary battery chargers only give out about 13.8 volts which will charge an AGM to about 85%.  A lower battery voltage means less RPM from the starter ...less RPM means a smaller spark .. smaller spark means no start.   At 85% charge the AGM battery voltage sags very quickly to 11.2 volts and then recovers ...if you don't get a quick start the battery goes flat very quickly.

I recommend the CTEK 5.0 amp battery charger with AGM recondition and normal charge mode.  My Jab 2200 starts first time every time even at temperatures below freezing..

hope this information is useful...

 

[kgwilson]

9 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

KG did you need to change the gap on all plugs, or just one from each cylinder?

With two plugs in each head, it might be possible to have one set for summer and the other for winter.

I changed the lot at the time from about .024 to 021. I couldn't believe the difference. It fired instantly once the change had been made.

 

Having one lot at 021 & the other at 024 is an interesting concept. I am not sure how or if  it would affect performance or fuel conumption or in fact cold starting. Someone might like to comment if they have tried anything like this.

[kgwilson]

4 hours ago, lee-wave said:

AGM batteries need a minimum of 14.5volts to charge to a 100%. Ordinary battery chargers only give out about 13.8 volts which will charge an AGM to about 85%.  A lower battery voltage means less RPM from the starter ...less RPM means a smaller spark .. smaller spark means no start.   At 85% charge the AGM battery voltage sags very quickly to 11.2 volts and then recovers ...if you don't get a quick start the battery goes flat very quickly.

I recommend the CTEK 5.0 amp battery charger with AGM recondition and normal charge mode.  My Jab 2200 starts first time every time even at temperatures below freezing..

hope this information is useful...

 

The alternator on my 3300A engine charges at a consistent 14.2 volts but I would have thought it is the current (amps) that it charges at via the regulator that is more important. Most vehicle batteries are never fully charged by the vehicle alternator. Even after a long run you can put the battery on charge with a good quality intelligent charger like a CTEK MXS-5.0 and it will usually go in to charge mode for a while before deciding the battery is fully charged and switching to trickle or maintain status.

[facthunter]

If you operate in really cold areas use a multigrade oil.  Nev

[facthunter]

This as a complete NON problem with the "IMPULSE" magneto.  In really cold countries you warm the engine from an external source. It also helps to start cranking with the throttle completely closed as part filled cylinders have a lower effective compression.   Nev

[spenaroo]

Can we all just agree that we should have the option to go back to the old shotgun cartridge starter (coffman starter).
so much lighter and portable. plus it has that satisfying bang and smoke

as a bonus would probably clear the runway of any wildlife too

Edited June 27, 2023 by spenaroo

[Garfly]

On 23/06/2023 at 9:34 PM, spacesailor said:

When I started ... Most aircraft could be ' hand- started '  

 

This wasn't you, was it Spacey?

 

 

[Paul davenport]

Bought a Kings jump pac around $100 started my motorcycle and saved me a call out so it’s paid for itself starts lawn mowers and I have no doubt it will start the Jab. Flash light is handy as is the recharge facility to charge phones and iPads. I just top up the charge before I leave on trips through the mains power.  At $100 it’s cheap insurance just buy one

[danny_galaga]

28 minutes ago, Paul davenport said:

Bought a Kings jump pac around $100 started my motorcycle and saved me a call out so it’s paid for itself starts lawn mowers and I have no doubt it will start the Jab. Flash light is handy as is the recharge facility to charge phones and iPads. I just top up the charge before I leave on trips through the mains power.  At $100 it’s cheap insurance just buy one

How much does it weigh?

[Paul davenport]

Have never weighed it but less than a kilogram

[Paul davenport]

Carry it on the bike in the car plane,  motor home camping 

[Garfly]

I think I've seen some consumer emergency start packs designed to plug into a car's cigar lighter socket.

That seems a bit dodgy, no?

[facthunter]

I'd be concerned on any motor that has starter clutch or flywheel fixing issues. Starters acting through the accessories case are also weak. If anything breaks off in there it goes through the works. 

 Cigar lighter sockets don't have a good record with powering any thing with many AMPS, especially IF it's continuous.  Nev

Edited June 27, 2023 by facthunter

[danny_galaga]

2 hours ago, Garfly said:

I think I've seen some consumer emergency start packs designed to plug into a car's cigar lighter socket.

That seems a bit dodgy, no?

I can't see how you could jump start an engine through a cigarette lighter socket. Charging yes, starting no. I mean if you could you could dispense with all that useless battery cable and save a few kilos 😄

[Blueadventures]

13 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

I can't see how you could jump start an engine through a cigarette lighter socket. Charging yes, starting no. I mean if you could you could dispense with all that useless battery cable and save a few kilos 😄

Usually protected by a 10 amp fuse; go figure.